Thread: Why do I need a Coticle?

Glen, Thanks. I said earlier that I had not tried an edge from a coticle, but that turns out to be wrong. In fact I tried one this morning. I used a Salem Marcos & Bros. that was finished on a coticle and it gave a very comfortable shave, but I can't say it was better than my others, but I wasn't really comparing at the time because I didn't remember that it came from a coticle. I hear you on the romance part and peoples propensity for their personal stones and personalized results. I've also read much on the difference in stones, i.e. hard/soft, garnet count, select/standard and on. That's, I guess, exactly why I'm trying to figure out how one dips their toe into this arena (if they decide to) without finding that it's in the frying pan. I would love to give natural stone a try, but worry about getting one that's only good for butcher knives. Esher might be the way to go, as just an excellent finisher. I guess that you read so much about coticles that pretty soon you just want to be part of the trend and have some of that experience for yourself. That's cost me a lot of $ in the past. I guess you only live once though, and I'm 65. When you get to our age, you'll understand why we're pretty much in a hurry. How'd your friend like the USMC razor. That could bring a tear to an old Marine's eye. Thanks from all of us!!!!!

Howard

Originally Posted by gugi

you could've simply used a thread title that describes better your question. For example "What do I gain from adding a coticule to my honing setup?".




You can ask somebody who has a coticule and is good at using it to hone/finish one of your razors with it and see what you think. Even if you have to pay for the service it's not going to be $300.
Or you can borrow somebody else's 'good' coticule and try for yourself - make some friends on the internet, or go to a meeting where people bring hones.
Or you can find a vendor who would allow you to return the hone if you don't like it. Or perhaps a local vendor who would allow you to test the hone before buying it.

Those are really all of your options if you don't want to just buy something based solely on other people's opinion and then find out if it was good or bad buy.

Sorry for the confusion. I thought the body of the post would explain what I meant. What's in my head doesn't always get out of my finger tips the way I meant it. E-mails have got me in more trouble with my kids. I'll try harder next time. Trouble is, when I read it back it sounds fine - go figure? Thanks though for the heads up. Good advice on trying a coticle. I just don't know many people yet. Thanks,

Howard

My expertise at honing does not come anywhere close to the guys on this forum like Glen and Lynn, so this just from my limited experience:

I own a Norton 4000/8000 combo, and have used it with varied success at restoring edges, but finally got it to work (except on one razor, which Lynn A. kindly redid for me!). About half a year ago, I wanted to add a finishing stone to the collection. I also wanted a single stone that would easily fit into the shaving kit and I could take along on some extended trips (2mths.+) to places where there would be no honing services available. The coticule was recommended by Lynn and a few other people, and has admirably fulfilled the intended role.

I bought the 150x50mm stone through SRD at $160. Didn't even have to use it until more than four months into the trip, when stropping and the green paste just didn't quite do it anymore. I worked up a good thick slurry on the yellow side of the coti, did about 10 circles and 10 x-strokes on each side of the razor, then twice thinned the slurry down and repeated. Did this with my two travel razors, a Dovo Maestro, and a TI Evide Sonnant. Edge came right back on both, and I'm still getting BBS shaves today, six weeks later.

I think that diligent stropping, occasional use of chromium paste, and an occasional honing on the coticule are a more than adequate maintenance regimen for a working razor, and I really like not having to schlep all kids of different stones around with me!

PS: The blue side of the coti works really great on my thicker blades. Have used it with good success on Shun chef knives and others!

You can see if Jarrod on theSuperiorshave.com can help you out, He has coticules on there and they are not 300$ for a razor size. Like said earlier you don't need a coticule if you already have a 12K but you may like they edges better as coticules leave a very forgiving and smooth finish on a razor. you can also see if anyone is selling them on forums and if they will let you test it and send it back if you don't like the way it works for you. They are natural stones and they can vary in speed and finishing properties like any other Natural stone.

Why do you need a coticle? You dont really, but many of us (not me) have this shared perversity for stones!

I'll tell you this much; they can be quite pretty! I have a few that I just stare at, they also hone two of my razors. The rest of the time I just look at them. Oh, I have used the coticule on one of my razors that continued to microchip as it was honed on synthetics, but now I have a Thuringian and Japanese stones that would probably work just as well. They do smell good as well, but I prefer the smell of my Japanese stones.

For someone who likes to hone and likes stones in general, at least one coticule is a cool stone to have. They have a lot of history and people have used them to hone razors for hundreds of years. Barbers of years past seemed to favor them IME. I think they liked the 'forgiving' edge they produce. A friend of mine, who is an extremely competent honer, sold me his because he preferred the 'scary sharp' edge he got with synthetics to the best edge he was capable of getting with a coticule. I am not crazy about scary sharp but I like an edge a bit crisper than I can achieve with my coticules so I prefer an escher. That may say more about my ability , or the lack thereof, than about the coticule, but that is my story and I'm sticking to it. I would get a 5 or a 6x2 just to see what the fuss is about. If it isn't your cup of tea you can usually get your money , or close to it, out of it.

(Jimmy, you're freaking wonderful!)

Speaking as a coti under-acheiver, all things said so far I'd certainly concur. Depending on the rock, they can be easier or harder to get to know. Generally, I'd say they take a greater amount of learning, technique and ongoing fussing w/ an edge to get it in the ballpark w/ what my humble skills do on other rocks. A few times, I've gotten edges that rival a gucci Jnat, but the percentage has been very low for me. In hindsight, I'd rather spend the $$ on a jnat or escher/thurry.
Now it was suggested you try some edges from the stone, and then mentioned you did get to try one. I've not used the service, but coticule.be used to offer free honing. Feedback from one member who tried this was impressive. They had tried edges from more than 1/2 the usual honemeisters, and counted Bart's coti edge as standing tall against any. 'Makes me wish I could take a remedial course and break through my limitation, which compares to a moderate 8k edge. The price increase in the last year makes them less of a value, IMO, compared to other options.

I have no doubt that levels of skill exist that can get fabulous performance from most cotis. I'm very jealous. But one really skilled guy said he went through (buying and selling) over 100 cotis before getting one he found satisfying. So unless I win the lottery, I'm in the wrong tax bracket to do this. So I guess I wish I had either the highly developed skill or the funds to reach coti nirvana, but for now, it remains out of reach.

Guy's, Thanks for all the replies. They all helped, but I didn't think I should go down the list and hit thank you on every post, although it would have been sincere. I'll sleep on it tonight and see when I wake up in the morning if I have a Coti or Escher smile, or maybe just an oh heck forget it frown. I can tell you from experience though, my forget power's not that great. I'm not much for setting on the fence. I'll let you know, and thanks again.

Howard

Am I the only one who's utterly confused by the $300-400 part?

Who told you Coticules are that expensive? You can get one of perfectly usable size for razors for far less. I'd say that even for a beginning honer at 150x50mm stone would be plenty big and that's 87 Euro at Ardennes.

With some practice, a considerably smaller hone is perfectly usable. 125x40, for example, is only 41 Euro.

Of course, that's if you NEED a rectangle. If you can make do with a Bout, an enormous Bout 10 (85-100 square cm) for 110 euro.

So if you're curious about a coticule, you don't have to drop that much on one. And if you're curious enough to go through this thread, then you're almost certain to buy one.