Thread: Yet another honing guide !

Hello all,


# GOALS AND CONTEXT

My goal is no less than to write a no brainer, authoritative, and complete honing guide for total beginners at honing (what a challenge )! So the purpose of this guide is to be a "one-stop-only" page for an enthusiast honing beginner.

DISCLAIMER: I myself have absolutely NO experience whatsoever at honing, not even at sharpening generally speaking. Zero, nada, nothing, 'squash deuce' (for poker fans). So I obviously won't claim any expertise. Therefore this guide much more a literature review (for those with scholar background). I want to show how much you can be learn and anticipate through careful learning.

I will plan and imagine how I will hone my first razor and basically list everything that I'll (try to) do. Here I have to give credits to Jack ('jdto') for his wonderful posts (http://straightrazorpalace.com/begin...xperience.html) that made me want to share my journey through nice writing.

I have a dull razor whose only problem is a lack of shave-readiness. In other words, dull yes, but no chips, no cracks, no worns, no smile, just a perfectly good razor that needs to be sharpened. (For my personal case, my first razor that I used and stropped so badly that I can't shave with it anymore... ).

I must say that what I really want is a straightforward method that works consistently, that is easy and forgiving for a rookie, and give a sharp yet smooth edge. (No less ) That is why I will go for synthetic stone (no artificial stone or one-stone-method such as coticule (?)).

Finally, I intend to edit this post and incorporate all the good advices/remarks/critics that people (you) will leave in your replies. So don't be surprised if, afterwards, this post changes and some replies further down seem irrelevant...

Again, I have NO experience, most if not all of what I'm gonna write is from reading SRP posts or watching youtube videos (or other resources).

Let's start.


# EQUIPMENT: STONES AND HONES

Reading:
- Beginner's Guide to Honing - Straight Razor Place Wiki
- Razor Honing - Straight Razor Place Wiki
- http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...tml#post665457 (or What hone(s), paste(s), or spray(s) do I need? - Straight Razor Place Wiki)
- http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...ning-hone.html
- and few other posts...

I decide that I will need:
+ a flattening (lapping) system. I didn't want to use dry/wet sandpaper (cheap and effective solution), so I chose to buy a stone. The DMT-325 seems to be the go-to or work-horse for most people, so I won't argue with that. At least 3"x8" big. The DMT-220 would have been alright too, but since there will be no (heavy) restoration work, lets go with the slightly smoother, finer grit one (relatively to the 220...).
+ a bevel setting stone. A 1000 grit (1k) or 2k stone should do it. A vast majority seems to use a 1k. However 2k looks acceptable too.
+ 2 sharpening/polishing stone: one lower grit and one higher grit. I know there is some semantic debate about what exactly sharpening and polishing is. I didn't really get it, but it's not that important, especially for a beginner. Typically the lower grit would be 3k, 4k, or 5k and the higher grit would be anywhere from 5k to 8k.

That's for the basic equipment strictly necessary (assuming you need to reset the bevel).

However, because it was included when I bought my stone, I also have:
+ a finishing stone, most of the time anywhere from 10k to 16k.

And, because it was included when I bought my strop, I also have:
+ Chromium Oxyde (CrOx paste) 0.5 micron

For what type/brand of stones to buy, this won't be discussed in much details here. From what I understood, the Norton combo 4k/8k is probably the best to start with for many reasons (consistency, cheap, many people/resources available to help you with). I didn't read that much for bevel setting stones of polishing stones (on top of my head right now, King, Naniwa, Shapton Glass (bevel) and Naniwa, Shapton Glass, Chinese 12k (polishing) are few names that I can give you, but there are many many other good ones)

Now I had the opportunity to buy a set of Naniwa Super Stone 2k, 5k, 8k, 12k. The drawback for me was that it wasn't the famous beginner set (Norton 4k/8k). The advantage is that it was only one brand all the way through, so a bit more consistency in the equipment. Also, I kind of understood that Naniwa SS were giving a very smooth, keen edge, which is something I really want. But they need a bit more lapping (which is also why I got a lapping stone over sandpaper).

Quick disclaimer: this is definitively NOT the cheapest set up option. If you're on a budget, pay a honemeister to hone your razor and keep them up to the task with a pasted strop and/or a barber hone and/or a finishing stone. I just want to have fun and play with deadly sharp object, not have a cost-effective shaving solution...


# LAPPING: GETTING THEM FLAT

I plan to do exactly as said here (Hone Lapping 101 - Straight Razor Place Wiki) and showed in many videos. Before any honing, with my DMT-325, draw a grid on the hone-to-be-lapped, lap while doing circles and '8' figures until it is entirely removed, do it one, maybe two more times. Then finish by smoothing the edges too.

I know there are considerations about grit 'contamination', i.e. something like, if you lap a fine grit with a much much coarser grit, the smoothness and grit of the fine one will decrease or deteriorate. I'm not sure how this could be a problem for the set I have, or for synthetic stone more generally speaking. I hope it won't and wait for your comments.

Also, there is some consensus that you don't need a stone that is flat plus or minus one billion-th of an inch (or centimeter for the non-imperialists). All you need is something that needs to be flat enough so a (flat) razor edge can have good contact all the way through.

Quick disclaimer: again this is definitively NOT the cheapest set up option. I just didn't want to bother buying sandpaper again and again IF I was to keep on honing. (So if I realize that I actually don't like it, watch for the classifieds ).


# MOVING ON FROM ONE STEP TO THE OTHER

I choose to do a separate section for evaluation (rather than to include it in the whole process). One key topic that come back regularly while reading on honing is: 'when do you know that you're done with this step/stage?'.

As Lynn (and others of course) says: less is better. You want to hone just enough to achieve your specific goal, but not more; because you don't want to overhone (that's subject to some debate) or to ruin your perfect edge with one additional but useless missed strokes (no debate over that ).

So my approach will be, at each step (bevel setting, sharpening/polishing, finishing), to iterate as many times as required (but not more): (a) one set of strokes, (b) evaluate the progress.

Many tests exists and have been extensively discussed (Sharpness tests explained - Straight Razor Place Wiki) (Hanging Hair Test, from trick to probing method - Straight Razor Place Wiki) or (youtube : watch?v=XZYFsOP7rBc).

Although I will try to be flexible (since results always depends and are more continuum than yes-no answer type), I'll aim at:
+ testing the bevel with the thumb nail test (TNT), the magic marker test (MMT?), the light reflection test (LRT?) and the arm hair test (AHT) (at skin level).
+ testing the 4k/5k with the thumb pad test (TPT), and the arm hair test (AHT) (few mm above skin level). Here, from what I've read, a good way to know if you're done is when the water/slurry stays clear (when you stopped removing a significant amount of metal). Or in other words, if the water/slurry on the next stone gets loaded very fast, go back one step. (http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...tml#post867684)
+ testing the 8k with the TPT, and the AHT (a bit higher above skin level). Now is the tricky part. I could stop here, strop, and shave test to know if it's good enough. If not, then go back to honing. I know that's what I should do, but I also know it's not what I'll do. I'll just go for the finishing 12k stone.
+ testing the 12k with TPT, AHT. Then stropping and shave-testing (or test-shaving?)

Remark 1: I forgot to say that I'll make sure that the test results are consistent along the whole edge length.
Remark 2: The TNT causes some slight damage to the bevel, so always redo some (light) strokes after testing with the TNT to undo the damage you just did.

At each step, but more in order to learn and less as a decision tool, I'll:
- do the hanging hair test (HHT)
- use a loupe/microscope to watch the scratch pattern
- pay attention to how the water/slurry interact with the razor edge during the strokes (see further).

I now the only, final, ultimate answer for people who hone their own razors is the shave test. But as a beginner it is hard to know what a good result should be, so having tests and a clear road-map is comforting and re-assuring.


# TAPE ?

Tape or no tape. Should I put electrical tape on the spine to protect it from spine wear... Hmmm let me see. The debate is huge and I'm just a beginner, so I won't even try to go in.

My position will be: I'm a beginner, the razor is not a wedge, it is not a fancy/expensive one, it is not my go-to razor, so I will NOT tape it.


# WHILE HONING

A hard choice I have to make is how to hold the stone while honing. Sham (hi_bud_gl) showed a very nice trick to evaluate how much pressure your actually giving to your stroke (hibudgl100's Channel - YouTube). However I don't know if this also works for non-dry hones.

As a beginner, I know that too much pressure will be one of my biggest challenges/flaws. But I can't imagine myself bevel-setting while holding the hone half in my palm. So I think that if I try to hold the stone like that, it will probably be only at the finishing/12k level, maybe at the polishing/8k level (earliest).

Speaking of holding, I think I'll have one hand holding the razor scales with one finger extended on top of the tang (or heel?, the part between the blade and the first rivet?) while I have the other hand holding the spine against the hone (more at the nose than at the heel level). Holding flat against the hone and putting too much pressing usually goes together for beginners, I'll do my best to watch out against that.

My set up is all water stones, so I'll keep them wet all time while honing. Actually, for the Naniwa SS, I'm surprised that some people soak them while some people just spray them. I haven't been able to figure out if there is a consensus or no, if that matters or no... What do you think?

Speaking of water, I said I'll watch it, because:
+ "When the blade is flat, the edge will push a ripple of water in front of it." (Pyramid honing guide - Straight Razor Place Wiki).
+ "If I see water not being fully pushed by the edge (i.e. sneaking under the edge) it means that the edge and the hone aren't fully in contact." (http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...tml#post853139).
+ "My statement has always been to watch the ripple of water at the edge as you hone, just so long as it is always there, you are doing fine..." (http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...tml#post592957)
+ "When you start honing on the stone, no matter where in the progression, the blade will push the water in front of it until the bevel matches the stone. At this time the water will climb up the edge and onto the blade, the better the bevel is the easier, faster and farther the water travels from the edge towards the spine. also watch the surface of the stone after the edge has gone by, the better the edge , the drier the stone behind that edge." (http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...tml#post868982).


# BEVEL SETTING

After watching many videos from:
- Lynn
- Glen (gssixgun)
- Sham (hi_bud_gl)
- the wiki (Honing videos - Straight Razor Place Wiki)
- and others (sorry not to mention you)

and after reading:
- Bevel-setting in theory and practice - Straight Razor Place Wiki
- Strokes for honing a razor - Straight Razor Place Wiki) and others
- http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...tml#post492931
- http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...tml#post516595
- http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...tml#post650316
- http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...ng-videos.html
- and others...

I decided I'll do:
(a) 40 circles on each side with a firm stroke (clockwise and counterclockwise as necessary)
(b) 40 circles on each side with a normal/light stroke
(c) 20 normal X-strokes with some/normal pressure
(d) 10 normal X-strokes with light pressure

And, as many times as necessary to achieve good test results:
- repeat only (d)
- if doesn't work (to repeat only (d)), then repeat only (c)-(d)
- if doesn't work (to repeat only (c)-(d)), then repeat only (b)-(c)-(d)
- if doesn't work (to repeat only (b)-(c)-(d)), then repeat only (a)-(b)-(c)-(d)


# AFTER BEVEL SETTING: SHARPENING/POLISHING

After reading:
- Pyramid honing guide - Straight Razor Place Wiki
- Honing - Alternative approaches - Straight Razor Place Wiki
- and others...

and after re-reading:
- http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...tml#post492931
- http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...tml#post516595
- http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...tml#post650316
- http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...ng-videos.html

I am now facing a dilemma. Should I go with a pyramid, where I go back and forth between 4k-5k and 8k, or should I go for a more linear progression...? Again, like with stopping at 8k rather than 12k, I think I, as a beginner, should stick with what people with thousands and thousands of razors honed under their belt advise to beginners... but I can't help to want to do a linear progression... I'm really not sure why, but that's what my guts are telling me to do. However, having a scientific inclination, I may do two (similar) razors with the two different systems, to get a feeling at least for which method I prefer to use, and hopefully for which method gives me the results I like better.

Lets say that, if I were to do a pyramid, I would probably:
(a) start with the (wiki) pyramid (the one starting at 25 X-strokes each on 4k and 8k), test
(b) if necessary (i.e. if (a) not enough), continue with the (wiki) Aggressive Honing pyramid (the one starting at 15 X-strokes on 4k and 5 X-strokes on 8k), test
(c) if necessary (i.e. if (b) not enough), continue with the (wiki) Conservative Honing pyramid (the one starting at 1 X-strokes on 4k and 5 X-strokes on 8k), test

Then if by (c) I'm still not done, then I would seriously re-consider my bevel setting stage. If I'm really confident that it is good enough, I would probably go for another (a)-(b)-(c) cycle. If by then I'm still not good, well, lets say that you'll see me beg for help on the forum .

On the other hand, if I were to do a linear progression, I would probably do:
* On the 5k:
(a) 20 regular X-strokes, 20 light X-strokes, test
(b) 10 regular X-strokes, 10 light X-strokes, test
(c) repeat (b) until good test results
* On the 8k:
(a) 10 regular X-strokes, 10 light X-strokes, test
(b) 5 regular X-strokes, 5 light X-strokes, test
(c) repeat (b) until good test results
* On the 12k:
(a) 10 light X-strokes, test
(b) 5 light X-strokes, test
(c) repeat (b) until good test results


# AFTER HONING

Well, if I arrive here, with an edge of the 8k or 12k that passes successfully the TPT, the AHT, and maybe the HHT, plus the loupe/microscope, along the whole length of the edge, then I'll congratulate myself with a beer or a glass of wine. If not, then I'll get over with and have a beer or a glass of wine...

More seriously, after that (and before any alcohol) it's gonna be a good stropping, and a shave test, and, of course a post on this thread reporting what I did right or wrong and the final results.

I may also give a quick lapping to the stone while they are still wet.

I actually have no idea if I should use my CrOx-pasted strop after the 12k Naniwa SS (pasting done following this post (http://straightrazorpalace.com/strop...-tutorial.html)). I guess as a beginner, I'm already planning on doing way too much, so I shouldn't add that variable on top of it. I'm pretty sure I won't go for it, but feel free to comment on the use of CrOx paste after finishing. (I know Lynn uses/finishes on diamond-pasted strops).


# CONCLUSION

Here we are.

Now that I've written this post and that I re-read it, I realize that this is much more a post "here-look-at-what-I-m-gonna-do-and-tell-me-if-I-m-wrong" and much less a 'hey-if-you-re-a-beginner-and-want-to-hone-follow-exactly-what-I-do-and-you-ll-be-rewarded-by-getting-the-status-of-honemeister-in-less-than-1-hour-and-one-razor'.

Oh well, I guess it can't hurt to have more info on this already awesome forum.

Although I know the best way to learn to hone is to read, read, read, then watch, watch, watch, then practice, practice, practice ; and although I know the pleasure is also (if not mostly) in the learning journey, I still really want to make this post and thread a "one-stop-only" page for basic honing for beginners.

Please do not hesitate to review/comment/critic/hate/love/advertise.......... this post.


Cheers all
Christophe

Oh my, there is preparation and there's OCD preparation lol!

Here's how I learned and what I usually start with.

Watching Glen's videos and copy everything he does as a start. Worked for me at least.

1k:
Lap/raise slurry with DMT, do 50-ish circles (20 in Glen-speak) on each side with a fair bit of pressure.
Dip razor, do 5-6 regular heel-leading strokes, dip again, do 5-6 X-strokes, dip and do 5-6 regular strokes again, look at the bevel, do a TNT if it looks good, and confirm it's popping arm hair, at this point in time, it usually does...

3k(or whatever your next step is)
Lap/raise slurry with DMT, 5-6 regular strokes, dip, 5-6 x-strokes, dip , 5-6 regular strokes, now the edge should undercut the water and the hone sucks the blade to it. Then three light "finishing" strokes on a clean hone.

Repeat as necessary on your higher grit hones, easing off the pressure as you move up, then strop and shave.

Then do it all again, as often you can...I think that's the most important part.


Your post is great and you put a formidable effort into it, thumbs up for that! But you might be overcomplicating it a bit and trying to cover it all in one big swipe. Just get started.

Originally Posted by Blix

Oh my, there is preparation and there's OCD preparation lol!

yeah, I have to admit that

Originally Posted by Blix

Your post is great and you put a formidable effort into it, thumbs up for that!

thanks

Originally Posted by Blix

But you might be overcomplicating it a bit and trying to cover it all in one big swipe. Just get started.

but that's my drama, I'm (desperately) waiting for my stones to arrive in the mail...,
so instead of doing someful useful or constructive, I decided to write up what I'm gonna do,
a bit like a sport man would mentally practice before playing.... (but for beginner honing )

Originally Posted by christophe

but that's my drama, I'm (desperately) waiting for my stones to arrive in the mail...,
so instead of doing someful useful or constructive, I decided to write up what I'm gonna do,
a bit like a sport man would mentally practice before playing.... (but for beginner honing )

Oh I totally know how it is , and mental preparation certainly helps.
Waiting for stuff sucks, especially when you are all into it like seem to be.
I'm waiting for some new stones as well, HAD got to me.....

Well, quick update: I tried very hard but mostly failed for my first two attempts.

To my defense, I think the razor is definitively not the easiest to start with:
- the scale is half broken at the pivot,
- the blade has uneven spine (honing) wear,
- it's a smiling blade,
- it's (only) a 1/4 hollow grind
- the edge doesn't lay flat on the stones, as I could see, as the water showed me, and as the magic marker test showed me.
(I'm not entirely sure if it is only because of the smile or also because of a 'twisted' blade (warp?)).

Remark: I honed only this one, because the only other razor I have so far (some eBays are on their way ) is the one I use to shave and I don't want to mess it up...

As a result, I spent some time on SRP to find resources to help me. Here are some new references:
- quick warp test: http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...tml#post160960
- honing troubles: Honing: Troubleshooting Guide - Straight Razor Place Wiki
- (more may be added to this short list if I can find them back..., but most of them were found while doing an SRP search for the terms: honing smile warp worn etc.)

The first session, I (tried to) set the bevel on the Naniwa Super-Stone 2k, then moved on to the 5k-8k (wiki) pyramid, CrOx stropping, leather stropping, and shave testing (I was actually proud of myself resisting to go to the 12k level ). Conclusion? An edge that pulls a lot at best, doesn't cut anything at worst. Well... at least it did not burn my face.

For the second session (2 days later), I had just received my DMT-325 (4"x10", such a monster ). So I went all the way back to the DMT-325 (to play a bit with it), then NSS 2k, 5k, 8k, CrOx stropping, leather stropping, and shave testing. (No 12k either, but this time, it was less about pride and more about being fed up after 2 or 3 hours of honing...)

For this session I decided to follow a linear progresson. And I understood why I wanted to do that in the first place (as said in the initial post): I wanted to learned the 'responses' of the different tests at the 5k and 8k levels. Which is not really possible with a pyramid progression (can't really learn the feeling of a TPT at the 5k since you always go back and forth between 5k and 8k...)

While honing, and in order to cope with the non-flat edge (Note that I had throughly lapped the stones), I kind of tried a bit of everything:
- X-pattern strokes
- rolling X-pattern strokes
- 45 degree angle X-pattern strokes
- swooping X-pattern strokes
- the strokes described in these nice videos (http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...tml#post725592)

None of them really gave me satisfaction. This is very likely due to my inexperience, since I understood that with enough practice, one can easily (but patiently) hone any razor however bad its initial state.

I haven't been able to pop any arm hair at any level, but since the TNT after the DMT and the NSS 2k were both good, I assumed it was because of my arm hair rather than because of an unset bevel (and I spent so much time on both, that it is hard to believe that it can't be set, especially since it was well set when I got it in the first place...)

The TPT wasn't that good all the way, but I watched very closely the edge scratch patterns and I could clearly see the changes from one stone to the other. I tried to move on only when I couldn't see any of the previous level scratches. Useless to add that the HHT was a complete failure at all time.

One thing I'm not entirely sure to understand is that the later level (5k, 8k) scratch patterns replaced the previous ones (2k) only at the very tip of the bevel. (2k bevel width ranges from 0.5 to 2 mm, while the 5k-8k 'bevel' width is probably around 0.2 mm, at the very edge of the blade). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understood that a double bevel, which can easily result from too much pressure at the bevel setting, would be the opposite, with the very tip of the edge staying at the bevel level while the other (2) side(s) of the bevel are being polished...

Conclusion of the second session? I started to shave and I couldn't really feel any improvement w.r.t the first session's shave. Being very frustated, halfway through the first pass, I went back to the CrOx strop and did 20 laps with some pressure (I knew it was bad, but I was pretty pissed off), then leather stropped for another 40 laps. The results was actually better but still pulling.

So both times I failed to get any decent edge. However I see some hope (I have to, after investing $300+ and 5+ hours in honing...): first because I got a less horrible shave the second time, and second because I think that it will be much easier on an actual 'straight' straight razor .

The Straight (Honing) Road is definitively a steep one (for me). But I'm sure it will be worth the time and money to finally have this god-like feeling of producing the perfect edge whose sharpness is beyond belief...


Cheers all,
Christophe.

If you cant shave hair of your arm, there is no point of going any further, you MUST be able to shave your arm hair easily,
if not keep going till you do without the bevel not set correctly it just wont work. Keep doing x strokes till you can shave arm hair easilly then go up. Im no expert but i did have the same problem and once you get a good bevel and go up it will all come together.

My Lord! ......,seems complicated! Sounds like what we all have been through. By all means, ......get it on........

Are you putting any pressure on the razor when you do your laps on the stone? Are you honing with one hand or two?

Originally Posted by pmburk

Are you putting any pressure on the razor when you do your laps on the stone?

I put a bit of pressure when I started the DMT-325, then no/light pressure.
Then I put (again) a bit of pressure when I started the Naniwa Super-Stone 2k, then no/light pressure.
Then I put no/light pressure on the NSS 5k and 8k, CrOx strop and leather strop (except the last time as I described in the post).

Originally Posted by pmburk

Are you honing with one hand or two?

I did hold the razor sometimes with one hand, sometimes with both hands, depending on what king of strokes I was trying.
I'd say that I used one hand most of the time, especially on the later grits (5k and 8k).
I've been careful / I've tried not to add any extra pressure with the second hand but only to use it as a guide and way of keeping the spine in contact with the stone.


Christophe

Originally Posted by Martin103

If you can't shave hair of your arm, there is no point of going any further, you MUST be able to shave your arm hair easily,
I'm no expert but i did have the same problem and once you get a good bevel and go up it will all come together.

Well... among the references I can't find any more, there were quite a few about people who had very good edges (shave tested) and who could not pop arm hair. Namely, in one post, the same (shave ready) razor popped arm hair on one arm but not another (not of the same guy of course ).

So I know this is likely to be my main problem (an unset bevel), but I also wanted to explain why I thought this test may not be relevant to me (good TNT and possible wrong type of arm hair).


Christophe