Thread: Love to hate my coticule

I have personally learned more in the past month watching gssixgun's videos than I did the previous 2 years, the man knows his stuff when it come to honing.

I have a small select grade coticule (1 5/8"x4") and hate the size but love the edges I get off it. Most of the time, depending on the razor, I can shave off the coticule, after stropping of course. Some razors need more polishing in which case I'll hit it with a C12K. Coticules really give Sheffields a nice, smooth edge.

Stick with it, IMO it's worth it. Since it's a natural stone, it takes a while to familiarize yourself with it's individual characteristics-- but when you get the hang of it, the payoff will be astounding. I love my coti, it doesn't leave the sharpest edge I've ever felt, but it is definately the most comfortable (to my face anyway).

Coticules can take a little while to get used to like chay2k said. Stick with it, and you will get some great results. For some good info on honing with the coticule check out Bart's website, coticule.be

Thanks so much for the feedback and encouragement guys!

Much appreciated!

Jon

Raithskar, You're far from alone. I'm a confirmed coti underacheiver. One LPB which is insanely fast. I stopped using slurry of any kind long ago. I use it in place of the 4/8. But I hit a wall at 8k level of keeness. The Dressante is acceptably fast w/ slurry, but also seems to top out about 8k unless I want to do 300 strokes on water.

Lynn generously explained one method for cotis that worked at least as good as any of the others I've tried. This was done on the fast LPB.

Danjared mentioned that he keeps using pressure until the last dozen strokes. I've also had a lot of frustration trying to get an edge w/out pressure.

http://www.coticule.be/the-cafeteria/topic/1937.html

If I have misrepresented Lynn, big apologies in advance. This is what I wrote down.

W/ all my frustration, I also have maybe 3 edges (out of 50+) where the finished edge rivaled the jnat. If I'd not had this experience, I would have concluded cotis are either bogus, or that I'm in the wrong tax bracket to buy and sell enough to find one that satisfies. Sham mentioned turning over 100+ cotis until he found his happy stone. There ARE guys who can make them perform reliably. It seems a level of skill/familiarity that remains in my future.

OK.....so last night I decide i am going to sit down and completely rework the edge. I went to the DMT 325 to start. I must have done something right, because I could pop arm hairs off the 325.

Next I go to the Nani 1K, still poping arm hairs after that.

Finally the coti. I made a really light slurry, finished up with water. Stropped really good this morning, started shave...feels pretty good, was feeling a bit of tug, and then It gets to the smooth I am hoping for! Sounds great right? Wrong.....I got up close to the mirror and realize that the razor is not even cutting anymore. I mean zip, zilch, nada.

Only think I can think of is that I was using too much pressure, or went to many strokes in the slurry on 1k or coti and dulled the edge. I am going to give it a few more tries, and if I can't pop the edge on this razor I am sending it to either Lynn or Glen. I should have probably done this a long time ago to give me a benchmark to go by, but I admit I am stubborn on wanting to do it myself.

I am not giving up just yet.

Thanks!

Jon

Don't give up.
When you get to the water-only stage... is the blade undercutting the water or is it pushing it in front of the edge? What you need (and this is when there is almost no water left on the stone) is for the water to ride up on the bevel. Then, you have the edge.
I actually check this across the progression - when the slurry is climbing up I know I'm close. The stone particles that make up the slurry will break the water's surface tension though.. so the slurry will climb up faster/easier than plain water will... it's not uncommon to go from undercutting with trace-slurry to nothin-goin-on with plain water. Some stones finish best under running water - I had an LBP like that.
If I lose the undercutting at the plain water stage, I go back to wispy slurry until I get the undercutting back. Then, I do less than half of the strokes I had originally done on plain water. I'm usually good then... if not, back to wispy slurry and then cut the water-only strokes in half again. Sometimes - finishing on wispy-slurry is the way to go.. depends on the stone.

This website is devoted to Coticules and their methods. http://www.coticule.be/home.html There is are several methods described in detail and it is a very helpful site. I have been honing for a very short time now but with the honing academy advice pages I managed to get some very fine edges that shave very well.

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Coticules are not as efficient for the stage we call sharpening (even though every stage in the honing process is sharpening, I think) as properly prepared 4k naniwa hones or something similar are.

This couldn't be further from the truth. You set a bevel on milky slurry and maximize keenness on light slurry, followed by water. It shouldn't take long to do at all, and the skin friendly edge is well worth it IMHO.

The stubble on my razor says that it's pretty darn sharp, and my irritation free skin is baby soft, and smooth to the touch.

Originally Posted by Raithskar

I went to the DMT 325 to start. I must have done something right, because I could pop arm hairs off the 325.

Next I go to the Nani 1K, still poping arm hairs after that.

Finally the coti. I made a really light slurry, finished up with water. Stropped really good this morning, started shave...feels pretty good, was feeling a bit of tug, and then It gets to the smooth I am hoping for! Sounds great right? Wrong.....I got up close to the mirror and realize that the razor is not even cutting anymore. I mean zip, zilch, nada.

Only think I can think of is that I was using too much pressure, or went to many strokes in the slurry on 1k or coti and dulled the edge. I am going to give it a few more tries, and if I can't pop the edge on this razor I am sending it to either Lynn or Glen. I should have probably done this a long time ago to give me a benchmark to go by, but I admit I am stubborn on wanting to do it myself.

I am not giving up just yet.

Thanks!

Jon

Why are you honing on a DMT 325? Is the edge in that bad of shape?

If the razor is sharp coming off of the Naniwa 1k, and is dull after performing sets of half/x-strokes, then either your slurry is too thick, or you are not diluting fast enough, and may be experiencing what's referred to as slurry dulling. Is the consistency of your slurry like milk, or yoghurt? It should be the former, and it should be well hydrated. You mentioned that it was light. Some veins, or layers, of Coticules are more prone to slurry dulling than others. La Petite Blanche, La Grosse Blanche, and La Nouvelle Veine come to mind.

Coming off of the Naniwa 1k able to pop hairs means that you're there, and the rest is finishing. I'd recommend sets of x-strokes on milky slurry with proper dilution, followed by more sets of x-strokes on light slurry in order to maximize keenness. I'd do at least four sets of 25-30 x-strokes with medium pressure on water, rinsing after every two or three sets (it's a habit that doubles as an auto-slurry shield), finally finishing with 2 or 3 sets of light pressure x-strokes. Strop on linen (not cotton) 60 times, leather 80 times. Coticule edges love natural linen ala Kanayama, Neil Miller, Tony Miller, Scrupleworks (Torolf).

Can you post a picture of your Coticule and describe what you think it might be?