Yeah, the Shaptons are very efficient.
Printable View
Yeah, the Shaptons are very efficient.
The last few days have been hectic.
I did get in a second shave with the Wm. Allen and it performed well. I'm going to be refining the edge a bit now that I'm home.
Didn't get in a shave yesterday. Instead, I drove from San Francisco to Oceanside with a sick wife. We got in late last night and crashed pretty hard.
Today I think it's all catching up and her cold has its little viral claws in me. I'm still looking forward to shaving today. I just need to get past the head-swimming this bug is doing. :)
To anyone concerned that just using the razor on the Norton doesn't count as resetting the edge, gather round! I've got a story!
In the beginning there was a little William Elliot razor. He worked hard to get an edge good enough to shave with. He shaved and shaved a few more times and goodness, he did take off the whiskers. But his heel and his toe just weren't quite as sharp as his middle.
So back to the Norton he went, just a little bit of evening out on the 8k side, he thought. That toe and heel couldn't grab arm hairs, so they clearly needed 10-15 passes.
What happened? His edge ran away from home and didn't even send a letter! Not only couldn't he catch arm hair, using pressure near the roots just pushed the hair over backwards against the grain.
The moral to this story is twofold. 1) just honing on the 8k side really does reset your edge if your technique is poor enough. 2) Don't hone when you're sick.
I got an edge on it again, but the heel and the toe still lack and it wasn't as good an edge as the previous one.
Well brother this is what this thread is about, we are sharing our failures also :( Sounds like a bit more work on the 4k and maybe giving the trouble spots a little extra attention (push) to bring them inline... Then go back to the 8kQuote:
Originally Posted by Voidmonster
I figure I'll do that and the Greaves later this evening, if I'm feeling up to it. I think now I'm going to wrestle with YouTube and try to get the video I shot posted. I'm working on the theory that it's just as useful to carefully document mistakes as successes. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
It is most important to document mistakes, you're absolutely correct. How many times have I tried to learn something by watching other's successes, only to wish I could watch a failure. Watching a mistake happen allows you to self correct and add reinforcement too, that in our technological age of loneliness ...... that you're not alone.
My JaNorton Misadventures
It was pretty painful to take two of my best-shaving razors, both of which I had honed with great success using the Norton 1k to set the bevel, then following the pyramid method fairly religiously to get them to shaving readiness, then finishing them on the 8k.
But...here we go...
In preparation for the honing, I very gently ran the edge of my blades over a drinking glass, then took them to the stones. I had lapped my 4k/8k in the sink with my DMT 325 (the big 4"x10" monster).
I started with the TI Le Canadien, deciding to roughly follow Maxi's successful steps as described in his post here.
So it was:
4k) Medium slurry with my nagura. 20 circles, moderate pressure. Repeat. Followed with 10 X's, moderate pressure. Rinse stone and razor. TNT pass. Then 20 circles, no pressure. Repeat. Followed by 10 X's no pressure. Rinsed stone and razor. Finished with 10 X's, smooth, even strokes. At this point, it wasn't doing a good job on arm hair, so I took it back on the clean 4k for a further 10 X-strokes, at which point it seemed to be popping arm hair fairly well, so I moved it up.
8k) 10 X's, no pressure. Rinsed stone and razor. New water on stone. Remove water with finger. Damp stone: 10 X's, ultra light, very slow stroke (3-4 seconds down, 3-4 seconds back).
For the W&B Bow Razor, I followed pretty much the same steps for bevel setting on the 4k, but after the 40 circles and about 20 X-strokes, I moved to a pyramid.
This is 4k/8k: 20/5, 15/5, 10/5, 7/5, 5/5, 3/5, 3/7, 1/7,1/10. Now the blade was ploughing through arm hair with ease, so I proceeded to clean the stone and razor, then, holding the stone in the palm of my hand, I went for 10 slow X-strokes with very little water.
That's it for the stones, now I'll strop them each for 100/100 on my SRD Premium IV, then maybe a further 50 on the 'roo strop I got from episaacs. Tomorrow will be a shave-test with the W&B, then maybe the next day the Le Canadien.
Fun stuff!
Thanks to all the experienced honers for sharing their methods, as it's a great guide for the noobs like me. If I can't get these dialled in like this, I'll go back to trying the bevel set on the 4k again, then run them through some more pyramids, as I know those work for me.
This morning I tried my latest version of the edge on the Bengall. Pretty good. If I knew this was the best shave that I could get from a straight I wouldn't be disappointed. BUT... like a lot of people here I know it can be better and will continue this quest.
The best razor related fun I had today came during archery leagues. We shoot two lines so you rest and BS while others are shooting. I was telling them about JaNorton. I was wearing a Tshirt and showed them my forearms commenting about how they were looking pretty bare from testing the edge. One of the women commented that I should try using my legs. I then lifted my shirt and showed them my beer belly. Last night honing in my living room shirtless I took the Bengall and and took a swipe on my beer belly. I have about a 1.5 inch bare spot about 10 o'clock from my belly button! The looks I got were priceless! LOL
I have to come up with a better test or people will start thinking I have mange!
Tim
Even though I didn't officially enter this experiment I have taken part in it. My wife got me a few flea market razors from Florida and gave me them for Christmas,an Everkeen,and a Carbo-Magnetic,both were in pretty good shape,but dull as butter knives. I took off any edge that they had with a glass and started,using Glens method for the Carbo and Lynn's circle method for the Everkeen. In keeping with the spirit of this test,I didn't count the number of circles or the "japanese strokes", I just kept on the 4000 until it passed the TPT, and took some arm hair,then both went to the 8000,the same treatment as on the videos (I had the laptop on the table with me) slurry to clean water with both,and very light strokes as I got to the hair-popping edge. Then they went to the strops,and those I counter out of habit, 75 on linen and 100on the leather.
I just finished my first shave with the Everkeen and was pleasantly surprised,the shave was smooth and very pleasant,I used Ma's vanilla soap
and must say that when all is said and done,all you really need IS the Norton 4/8k and a good technique. So that's the tale of the first shave and I will post pictures when I figure out why this computer isnt reading the memory stick.
Keep on honing
Griz
Ok, I'm in. Complete honing-noob here. Just pulled the trigger on a DMT D8C (325), Norton 1k, Norton 4/8k, and two stone holders from Sharpening Supplies .com.
I've got 4 straights, two Soligens, two Sheffields, and have been straight shaving for three years without a hone or real strop, cottage style!
I'll be reading this thread in it's entirety in the near future hopping to hone my skills.
I went with the Nortons over the Naniwas because of some reported swelling issues with the later.
I figure this was the way to begin. I'm looking forward to the journey...
Hex
I've threatened it.
Now I'm doing it. The video of me honing the first of my two JaNorton razors. As soon as I hit post on this, I'm going back to watch all the other videos posted here. But this would should be a really excellent way for newbies to see what a bunch of newbie mistakes actually look like when someone is making them for real.
WARNING! This video is an hour and five minutes long. Getting it edited together is why it took me until now to get it here. That and the fact that YouTube kept flagging one of the parts as containing copyrighted music1.
Anyone who watches the whole video gets one free trip into the future, exactly one hour and five minutes!
1.Man, someone must have copyrighted some really minimalist music! I'm Steve Reich and I don't even know it. Huh.
Sorry, Blix says there's a part two to this scenario :DQuote:
Originally Posted by jeness
I recommend this thread be closed IMMEDIATELY! This is just getting WAY out of hand! An hour and five minutes of honing? Are you SERIOUS? Do you know what the collective she who must be obeyeds will do when they find out? (which they will). We'll be shut down forthwith!Quote:
Originally Posted by Voidmonster
Just show them the video. No one can copy my amazing style and technique, and it'll be apparent almost immediately that no one should even try!Quote:
Originally Posted by carlmaloschneider
Alternately, use your imagination and suggest this is good exercise for other activities. Like maybe ... uh... Delaminating the dishes or maybe tanning marmoset hide. Yeah. Tanning marmoset hides. That's it!
Now I get tanning marmoset hides, I gather it requires (1) marmosets and (2) a tanning salon, and (3) tanning lotion, but deLAMINATING dishes? Pardon?Quote:
Originally Posted by Voidmonster
Alright. The Puma is much better. I'm not sure if it's the slurry on the 8k or the last little bit of stropping strokes at the very end, but the shave off the Norton 8k on the INOX was outstanding. Very skin friendly and keen. :D
Started with the Brian Brown again, but no go still, it's so weird, it's easy on the Shaptons but it doesn't seem to like the Norton :(
I'll try a couple times more before I replace it with something else...
The Gotta however was just as great, really nice and smooth, just a super edge!
So today was a good shave with the Wosty. I am of the opinion that If I push for BBS my face will suffer the result!!
Im a little late but ive been keeping up with the thread, so last night i honed my 2 razors for the Ja/norton 4k/8k phenomenon.
I followed the circles method by the way i never did circles before im fairly new to honing but had good results, but i did go a little further on the 8k then Lynn did on his video and did a small progression afterward 1/3 1/5.
Stropping on the Illinois 361 linen for about 100 ( i dont really count but that what i came up with)
then on the 361 leather for about 50.
After that went on my fine strop and old Timber Mellow Tanned Russian process hand finished butt horse hide strop for 25 regulars
and 25 very light passes.
Shower, brought up a good lather using prorasso, cooked up a couple towels in the nuker.
And the shave............ using my Puma. I was pleasently surprise, felt very comfortable, no pulling, no blood,damm i got something halfway decent going here, i did my usual 2 passes and it felt pretty nice, much better then anticipated,
i was thinking that guy Lynn really knows his stuff!!!
Was it the best shave i ever got hell no!!!
but certainly not the worst either ide give it a 7.
I will use my second razor tomorrow a Geneva 7 pyramid.
I certainly feel that i can push the edge a little more what would you suggest.......... perhaps another 1/3 1/5????????
Im open to suggestion!!!
You know, for when the carpenter ants come along and put down flooring on everything! Sheesh!Quote:
Originally Posted by carlmaloschneider
I have used both razors 3 times now.
I must say, this combo hone can put out some really nice edges.
Combined with some good old stropping, I find the edges very much shave-ready.
I am taking both back to be honed again though, implementing a few of the techniques presented in this thread this far.
What I'm planning on is to use circles and pyramids (one of the methods per razor)more than what I usually use, after taking the edge off the razors on the side of the hone.
The ones I started out with was already shave ready, so now I'm going all the way with the 4/8.
I will be doing it without slurry for now. That will have to wait for next week:)
I normally use the Thumb-pad- and arm-hair- test for assessing my progress as I hone, but I will try the numbers game on at least one of them for comparison:)
This JaNorton thing is a real hoot!
Tons of stuff to try out, and seeing so many approaches works so well for so many is inspiring!
I wasn't feeling particularly full of oomph last night and I didn't have time today, so instead of taking the Elliot back to the Norton I just stropped it really a lot this morning. Whattya know, it shaved great! I still feel like the heel and the toe aren't quite as sharp as the middle, but it's all sharp enough that I'm getting consistently excellent shaves.
I could honestly be happy shaving with just this one razor and the Norton stone to keep it shipshape.
I could, that is, if I did not have a monstrous, galloping case of RAD.
Like many here in the JaNorton ShaveFest I'm four shaves into it, and having re-honed my pair with a 40c-10x-40c-10c type pattern, AND moving from the 4k only after popping hairs I'm done. My goal now will be to shave for the remainder of the month alternating between my two razors (ProbableWade and LeaderDuck), stropping consistently and only going to the stone if I have to. I don't want to clutter the thread with too many shaving reports, so I'll chime in maybe with a weekly update. This has already been an eye-opening experience and we're just getting started! Thanks ALL!
Decided to replace the BB with a different razor, don't want to wear down a custom 8/8 to a 2/8... :D
So I grabbed the 13/16 Globusmen.
Killed the edge on my scuttle, soaked the Norton for 10 minutes (man the 4k slurps water!)
Made a slurry with the Naniwa stone that came with the Chosera.
Did 40 circles on each side.
5 regular stokes
5 x-strokes
5 regular.
Cleaned off the hone
5 regular
5 x-strokes
5 regular.
At this time it had a bevel that cut hairs all along the edge so I was happy :y
Pyramid:
10 on 8k
5 on 4k
8 on 8k
4 on 4k
5 on 8k
1 on 4k
5 on 8k
Cleaned of the hone and wiped off water with my index finger and did a very light "20 laps to dry"
50 laps on Illinois #827 linen, 50 on the leather, 50 on Kanayama suede, 50 on the cordovan.
Passed my personal HHT with flying colors all along the edge, I'd say it's ready for a fine shave tomorrow. :)
Did another 25 laps on the 8k side to try to improve the smoothness of the shave, and it seemed to help. The shaves are comfortable, with minimal irritation, but not as close as I am used to. More to do and report on, but I am having fun.
It went well. Dovo 5/8. I did two passes. Before the first pass, i did about 60 on webbing, 100 on leather. Between passes I did another 30 on leather.
The shave was pretty good. I had noticed on the final strokes of the last shave that it was just minutely scratchy, which led me to up my stropping count for this one. I felt fine with the razors edge throughout the shave.
I'll be back in the city with my hones and strops in a couple days, so I'll start tweaking the other razor when I get home and post some results along with stroke count and style.
3rd Shave
Razor : 7/8" W&B chopper
Method :
Just for the heck of it, I did 5 sweeping X-strokes on the N4k.
I then went to the N8k with just water. Using only the weight of the blade, I did 10 sweeping X-strokes again, then rinsed the hone, and did 10 more sweeping X-strokes.
I then stropped 40x on my homemade denim cloth strop, followed by 40x on my homemade cowhide leather strop.
Shave : I did my usual 2 pass shave (WTG, XTG), following the same prep procedures I always do. The shave was, again, fairly comfortable, and ended up fairly smooth, very similar to shaves #1 & #2. It did feel like it was a bit closer of a shave this time compared to the previous 2 though. In the interest or seeing if I can get another close shave like this one, I will do the same procedure next time.
Just finished my first JaNorton shave. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't good, either. It was the W&B Bow Razor that had been shaving wonderfully, but tonight it felt rough and I limited it to two passes, as opposed to my usual three. I will definitely be going back to the Nortons for more pyramids with this one. Tomorrow or Saturday, the Le Canadien gets a run out.
Here's how I honed it: http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...tml#post901150
Ran the Greaves over Mr. Norton's thousands of grits today. It went much better than the Elliot (he says now, before shaving with the Greaves).
I'm starting to feel like I have some perception of the process, and a little bit of control over the outcome. I was able to get an edge on the Greaves with much less fuss. I got a bit better feel for the thumbpad test and was able to feel exactly where the edge was and thus focus on other parts.
The proof, of course, will be in the shaving, which I'll do tomorrow.
I am having a great time!
I didn't have an extra hour and five minutes tonight! :-] But I Jumped through the video stopping in about 10 places. One of the spots was at the point you said, "The best way to learn is through doing." Maybe not your exact words but I couldn't agree more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voidmonster
Tim
There is alot of great stuff coming out of this thread. Even though I am not part of it I am looking forward to trying out this stuff on my Norton this weekend. Thanks gentlemen.
A little family history:
My Grandfather was C. John Ryan, a civil engineer.
He created many things in his lifetime and worked on many projects including B17 and B29 Bombers, M61 Vulcan gatling gun, above and below ground nuclear devices...
His crowning glory was being the chief engineer of the Hubble Space Telescope.
He used to tell us:
"You are only as good as your instruments."
Fast forward to JaNorton 2012.
I joined this thread to learn straight razor honing, and by next Wednesday I will be the proud owner of my first Norton 4/8k.
I have collected many 'instruments' over the years (including my straights), and I thought this one might be of interest to you.
It is an early 70's Olympus Tool Maker's Microscope.
Attachment 86710
I was able to capture some initial images of my razor's edge.
Know that I have been shaving with this razor, exclusively, for three years, with no hone, and only a thick bit of leather that I scalvaged for a strop.
You can imagine it's not a pretty sight under the scope--it does shave, nonetheless, and I love it!
Forgive this first hand held image and video through the ocular. They too will improve when I post again.
Attachment 86712
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oUgAyFTRmc
I personally want to thank gssixgun for his informative honing videos, your generosity is taking many of us to a higher level.
Sincerely,
Hex
aka HexAngler
aka Eric Ryan
Don't want to clutter the thread but I'm getting great results with Hamburg Ring and Otto Bush Weltmaster. I can't believe how much I have learned doing this exercise. Will report in next week....Thanks Glen!!!
You're certainly not cluttering up the thread with a relevant post! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by BanjoTom
Todays shave with the Globusmen I honed last night was excellent as predicted.:tu
Some interesting things this past week...
Been doing a fair bit of razor testing on customers razors but I have been getting in at least one pass or so on the Bengall with all the test shaves..
It is interesting to try and feel the differences, my customers did not sign up for JaNorton so I have been honing their edges in my usual ways..
I am going to try and shoot the second vid tomorrow on the Henckels when I hone it up, have a few tricks I want to try during it :rofl2:
I can't believe the weatlh of info coming out of this thread already, I can only imagine how much more it will grow throughout the month.
Glen, I can already say if I had to, I'd be super happy with a couple hollow ground razors and the Norton for the rest of my life.... It's that good.
Buuuut, where's the fun it that? Haha :rofl2:
For tomorrows shave I gave the Globusmen 10 laps on the Norton 8k with lather, it will be interesting how that works out.
Although I have been getting acceptable shaves off the 8k, this morning I tried something different. I had read Tim Zowada's "two-bevel honing method", and decided to try it. 10 laps on the 8k with an additional two layers of tape, followed by 30 laps on clean linen and 60 on leather.
I can't say the difference was phenomenal, but the shave was closer and more comfortable.
Even this early in the month, I'd have to admit that a Norton 4/8 could be the only stone you need.
Thanks to Glen for having this idea.
Rick
Alright so question for the group......I have been working on the Boker I picked for this month and it doesn't seem to want to take an edge all the way across. The middle and toe are doing great and was so excited when I FINALLY got it to cut hair I almost shaved my whole arm!! Hahaha ;) but I can't seem to get the heal to grab. I've tried putting a bit more pressure when doing the strokes but it hasn't seems to help very much. Since I am/was a TOTAL noob to going any of the more experienced (really anyone here is more experienced than I so anyone) have any tricks and/or tips that I could try.
Thanks! And as frustrating as it can be I am having a blast learning!!
Ben,
I'd try canting your heel forward about 30 degrees, and putting your finger on top of the cutting edge (on the blade). You won't need lots of pressure, you'll just be giving it a little push.
Also, before you stroke, put the whole blade on the stone and look at it.....when the spine is in contact, is the heel even touching? Maybe you need to alter your stroke style from a general up/back to a rolling X.??? Do this first...then try canting it forward.
Today had my 2nd shave with the Puma and last night i did a 1/3 1/5 on it and not a big improvement.The shave was ok not
bad but i still think i can get more out of it! my second one the geneva i did the same honing and that needs work for sure,
that was uncomfortable. Definately a good learning experiences.
