Thread: Twisted Dovo - Honing help needed (Bevel setting)

I am new to honing, but I have been trying to read up, search and practice on various stones and razors.

My problem is the difficulty of bevel setting. Seems utterly impossible to pass TNT and pop hairs off the arm on the 1k level. If I get drag on TNT and cut arm hair on 1k king stone and then move up to 6k king, after few laps it wont cut hair anymore. I guess I dont have the bevel properly set?

The more serious problem is that the new dovo that I bought wont lay flat on the lapped hones. It seems to have a 'twist' in the blade. I have tried the rolling-x on the side of my 1k stone while helping with the other hand to maintain edge contact through the stroke. In the other direction edge contact is much easier to maintain. I have tried the marker test to make sure that I am touching the whole edge, but despite my efforts I have not been able to set the bevel. The only exception is the toe of the blade where the TNT seems to pass every time.

Now the bevel is no longer same width along the edge, but it is there the along the entire edge. What is the remedy to this problem?

Here are some pictures I tried to take with a 60x and a camera. Could be better pictures but they have to suffice for now. The scale is millimeters.





I tried to examine the problem more carefully and the blade might be warped not twisted - it is hard to say because error is not very big. On the side that is warped in the warp is not big enough to let the wake go under the mid-section while on the other side it is very clear the edge is not flat.

On your photos the bevel seems ok to me. The striations go to the edge (unless those are smudges and not striations) and once you hone past the microchips you'll have a shaving edge. Of course it depends on whet's happening on the other side and all along the edge, as this is only a small section.
That edge may be a bit overhoned, certainly not ready to shave yet, but if it was me at this stage I'd be using the norton 4k or the naniwa 5k.

Honing warped blades is a bit more challenging than honing nonwarped blades, I usually go by the feedback from the water on the hone.
My experience with the king hones is next to none, so I can't really tell you what to expect from your honing progression.

Listen to Gugi - he knows of what he speaks. I would just like to add that if this is among your first honing attempts you will find a bit of the old magic marker along the edge can do wonders to help you visualise what is going on with a warped blade.

Good luck!

James.

Can you show a couple pictures of the whole razor so that we can look at the spine wear on both sides??

Thanks,

Lynn

It is hard to tell from pics in general as light angle is often varied but the second pic may show an incomplete bevel or slight wire or burr. First pic looks ok.
It is common to create a burr on warped blades as unless your stroke perfectly follows the edge & spine you will hone more on one side due to lack of contact on the other. Stropping on linen will magnify the problem further as the edge is more fragile in spots & will look rough @ magnification. It is not a problem with your hones but your razor.

Some people find narrow hones easier to use in these cases but it is no problem on a 3" hone with a little practice. You need to rock &/or roll the blade more near the edge of the hone & be sure the hone edges are well smooth & chamfered. You may choose to hone specific areas a little more to compensate but it must be done carefully to avoid creating frowns especially if the warp is in the centre of the blade.

The plus side is, if you can get it right, you will be able to hone most razors

Thanks, for the replies. This really is a great forum, I hope I can some time also contribute and help others. Taking pictures of edges is challenging and the varying light (like in the above) angle makes the edge seem very different from picture to another. My guess is that there was a bended burr or incomplete bevel.

I already got some pointers last night from the chat. I honed again on the side of my hones and rounded the hone corners with sandpaper. I made some progress and got closer but it still needs more work. According to the marker test the edge is making proper contact on both sides.

Lynn - I use tape so there is no wear marks on the spine, but I will post some pics anyway.
As you see, slight smile and uneven bevel wear.

I've seen & honed worse. This is an instance where not taping may have helped correct the spine a little but carry on. I wouldn't mind betting your close. Remember however that the edge follows the shape of the spine.
The high spots are highlighted. The warp is at the yellow line. From the factory honing it appears the warp is in the spine rather than an oddly ground edge.

You are right, the spine is not even and it is pretty obvious. The middle of the spine is narrower than the heel or the toe. I guess not using tape might flatten that out a bit, but with my experience I rather first learn how to set the bevel and hone from there than start correcting warps and other slight irregularities in the razor. Later, I might come back and do some correcting.

BTW. The hone bug really bit me as I am not liking my 6k king that much. I ordered a long and narrow coticule for this kind of problems and also the 3k/8k naniwa ss combo. That should get me covered.

Ok, I think I am catching on. Still not good bevel set but learning all the time. My problem might be that I am doing too much and too unevenly. Frustrated by the failures - I decided to ditch the tape and the microscope and go with as few strokes as possible. Also I really tried to hit that edge evenly. Looking at the jagged edge with the microscope was driving me crazy and kept me honing on when I should have stopped. It cant take for hours to get a bevel set. Especially, if you are already close.

I went down to dmt 600, because i was setting the entire bevel again (without tape). 40+40 circles on both sides with firm pressure and few light rolling-x strokes. Good drag on the heel and the toe (because of the warp the middle was not getting even grind) and cuts hair well at those parts. I did few more x's and tnt drag all along. So I think I was set for the 1k. Again 20 circles and few rol-x's and the edge was completely gone?! WTF? I did few more really evenly and lightly and the bevel almost came back. This taught me how little it takes to set the bevel and how little it takes to mess it up.

Having said that, it is interesting that Lynn and Glen seem to use quite a bit of pressure on the bevel setting. I can do that too, but it seems always the following light strokes that are supposed to set the bevel do more harm than good as the edge gets these chips and seems to fall apart.

Is it so that the firm circles just get rid of enough metal to establish a new bevel and the *light* x-strokes are what actually set the final bevel. By that I mean, is the razor passing tnt and shaving hair already after the firm circles?

One culprit of mine might also be that pressure is directed to a much smaller portion of the edge with the rol-x and it is too uneven and it just cant take it.