Thread: C12k questions, how many passes??

Originally Posted by SharpMan

Guys a bit off topic maybe, but I noticed that for the very
hard stones,like the chinese guangxi hone(CGH), the hardness
of the steel determines how many passes one would need. Now
this comes from using plane blades, not kamisoris.

The softer steel, high carbon 58-61 HRC, was like it was gliding
on the CGH, it did not feel like polishing at all. Basically almost
nothing was happening.Only by creating slurry with nagura I was
able to polish on the CGH.

When I used harder steel(63-64HRC) I was able to sharpen without
needing any nagura slurry. The harder steel was creating a minimum
amount of slurry on the CGH which made it work, whereas the softer
steel could not do this at all it and nothing was happening, hence requiring
a nagura slurry.

Make sense?

Hey, now that is fresh info!! I have some VERY hard steel razors, and the one I have been working on was a near wedge, and I used tape all the way thru until the paddles.

I have the exact stone you describe, the CGH as you call it, and it is indeed HARD!~! THis particular razor was creating some slight slurry of it's own, leaving a slight talcum feel to the surface when I was finished. But I did use my nagura on the first 25 laps anyway, as that is what I was taught..

Some that I have tried on that stone left no slurry of their own, and were extremely sharp when I finished, but still left me with some bumps after what I thought was an extremely nice shave. Within 2 or 3 hours I would start to itch and there they were, bumps again. Even going just 2 passes, which was almost BBS anyway, still left me bumps.

Thanks for all the info guys, it puts plenty of thoughts in my head!!

Mike

With the PHIG that I have, for most razors, 30-50 laps does the job.

A better way to tell when you are done is to look under magnification to see if you have replaced the former scratch pattern with a finer one from your c-nat. If it looks mostly polished with the loupe but still has scratches from the previous stone on the bevel you're not quite there yet.

As to how many strokes to use is a question without a promising answer, because every stone is different. Every person hones with different pressures throughout the progression also.

Originally Posted by mjhammer

However, I have been told (I believe I have experienced it with razors other have honed for me) that the bevel will polish up and some if not all of the scratches can be made invisible, i.e. the blade will smooth out greatly.
Lack of scratches in the bevel does not equate to smooth shaves... well not always.

After 3 passes of about 25 strokes, taking it to clear water, I have inspected the edge and found very little change, but in spots it is almost clear of scratches, so I'm wondering if I should go as high as say 200 laps on it?
Here I would think an uneven stroke or slight warp. Depending on the extent of either or both , more passes may not solve the problem.
I can't think why else scratches remain while others go. Unless the polishing is simply revealing older or deeper scratches from earlier stones. If it's the latter there will be a mirror polishing effect across the whole edge with some deeper scratches revealed but if it's lack of contact there will be an obvious 8k finish still left in spots.

I was afraid of creating a wire edge if that is possible on such a hard stone. And I mean this baby is hard. I doubt it. Wire edges happen more commonly with fast cutting stones

So I have shaved of the 8k with great success, but it was a little harsh to me, and tends to leave me with bumps, but no burn or nicks, etc. Just little ingrowns. This was after stropping as much as 200 strokes before using too.
Puzzled here, "a little harsh but no burn ? Too much pressure maybe ?

I was hoping smoothing the blades up was the solution to that. They shave without any pull or tug, but like I said, they leave me with bumps. I treat them with Witch Hazel, Tend-Skin et.al, but razors I hone tend to do that, whereas razors that say, Rene has honed for me (going up thru 12k+ in his progression) do NOT do that to me.
Does sound like you may have the sharp side of things wired. No tugging or pulling is a good sign. Maybe you're closer than you think to to the optimal edge. Do a little more experimenting with more strokes on the C12k. People do talk about 100 or more & you have to figure out your own process but if you obsess about no scratch bevels you have to be equally obsessive thru your whole progression as earlier scratches will surface towards the end. Luckily mirror polishes are not essential to a good shave I think you said you've tried 40 & up to 100 so I feel you may have covered a reasonable range of passes. 200 or more runs the risk of botched strokes & really why is so many strokes needed ? I still can't help thinking the problem lies earlier in the progression, in spite of sharpness achieved.
That lack of contact or unresolved scratches showing in spots is a clue that should be chased up. We talk about the importance of bevels @1k & light minimal finishing strokes etc. but the mid ranges are equally important. If you skimped the 4k the 8k won't smooth the 1k stage.

What say you to that long winded message my friend?? Whew !!

Thanks so much for your input, I want you to know I value it greatly!!

Edited a bit of your reply Mike but hope this helps & hope I'm not barking up the wrong tree If I had the razor in front of me I'd have more of a clue as I'm better with visuals but the red highlight rang alarm bells for me.