Thread: Question about sharpening, stones and flattening

My question concerns sharpening stones and sharpening a razor.

I want to start sharpening and I have a few choices near me. I have heard good things about the Norton 4/8K, but I would also like to know if the King 4K and 8K compared and if they were a good choice. I have a 1/2" razor, I think a 1/2 or full hollow, and a 5/8 Sheffield that I will sharpen in the future, after I get more skill. I don't know what type of razors I will get in the future so am interested if these hones work on various steels. Just sharpening for myself at this point.

If I get the Norton 4/8K do you have suggestions on flattening. I've read that the 4K is a chore, so that is why I thought of the King stones. I don't want to buy a dmt at this point.

Is lapping film a good choice. I have these grits available:
15 Silicon Carbide, Plain
15µ Silicon Carbide, PSA
5µ Silicon Carbide, Plain
5µ Silicon Carbide, PSA
0.5µ Chromium Oxide, Plain

At this point the 1/2" razor is pulling a bit. I tried some 0.5 Chromium lapping film, but didn't seem to do it, although I am new to sharpening. This razor isn't anything special, so I thought I could learn on it. How do I know where to start and to switch between grits like 1,4, and 8K?

Thanks for advice

I can't speak in regards to the lapping film or King stones, however I will say that I'm extremely happy with the Norton stones that I have. Can't go wrong with a Norton 4/8. I use a DMT-325 to flatten all my other hones.

You can lap stones on 200- or 400-grit silicon carbide "wet-or-dry" sandpaper. Put the sandpaper on a really flat surface (marble or granite tile, or glass, works well), and keep the stone and paper wet.

That will postpone the purchase of the DMT 325.

There's an article in the Wiki (in the "Honing" section) on using lapping films. I started out with wet-or-dry sandpaper (1000/2000 grit), 5 micron lapping film, and CrOxide on a pasted strop. You can sharpen a razor that way; stones are easier to use. Since I got a Norton 4K/8K, the sandpaper has stayed in its drawer.

I think you're being over-cautious in trying to match individual razors to hones. People sharpen _everything_ on Norton 4K/8K stones. Developing one set of habits that _work_ is easier if you don't have too many alternatives.

CHarles

Sorry I don't have experience with the kings or the lapping film for razors. The Norton wasn't too bad to lap, at least for me, when I got it about 6 years ago. If anything the 8k was a little harder I think.

I'm very happy with my Norton 4/8. It works well enough that I haven't felt the need to spend money on another mid range or 8k stone.

Switching between grits just requires experience and looking. I use a loupe and sometimes can tell just by looking with the naked eye. After a little while on a stone you will see the scratches change, and the level of polish will get more intense. Check frequently and after a little while you will stop seeing changes. From 1-4k is your biggest jump in grit. In my experience it's easy to under-do the 4k, and then it's hard to "max out" the polish on a blade. So use a careful eye, and keep checking as you hone on 4k, until you can't get any more improvement. Lately as my honing improves, I get quite a polish off of 4k before moving on to the 8k

Michael

On a different note, if you can't get a razor that is shaving, and starting to pull a little, corrected with .5 CrOx, you might be doing yourself a big disservice jumping into heavy honing and tearing into a blade with a 4k hone.

A 4k and 8k hone is not a solution. It's a potential distraction. The real problem remains.

When you get them try using the 8k first on the razor in question and try and figure out what you are doing wrong with the .5. Please don't assume that the .5 isn't good enough and you just need more "power".

Stones are a completely different animal so that can be helpful. It can also turn you into a frustrated and confused post-aholic.

I've tried most of the major synthetic stones and the King's are my favorite. They are slower than the Nortons but, IMO, they give much better feedback when honing. The reason most, myself included, recommend the Nortons is that they are just about a perfect balence of speed, feedback and user friendliness. Plus a lot of people use the Nortons and can offer more specific answers to any questions you might have. As far as lapping goes, as said above all you need is a flat surface and some 400 grit wet/dry.

Thanks for the advice. I think I will try the Norton 4/8K. I hope removing the crust off the 4K isn't going to take too much work with the sandpaper. I can get some 80 grit at a auto parts, but 2.75"x16". I could use that to start with, or is 400 coarse enough?

Can I go from 8K to 0.5 Chromium Oxide?
I'm not sure what I am doing wrong with the film. I did about 50 laps with X strokes. I'll have to work on that.

If I get the Norton 8K I might stay with that until I get used to it.

Thanks

I don't know if I'd go down to 80 grit sandpaper, but something in the 300 to 400 range should be all you need; just make sure it's wet or dry paper. If you get the Norton 4/8k combo, then both sides will need to be lapped. The 4k side is pretty easy, but the 8k side may take a while. Just keep at it until it's flat; the results are worth the effort.

There's no reason you can't go from the 8k to the CrOx, but I'd keep the lap count low to begin with. Maybe 7-ish strokes on CrOx after finishing on the 8k, and then strop and test.

I took some advice from Larry at Whippeddog. I stropped 50x on the Chromium Oxide 0.3 micron and 50x on Iron Oxide 0.1 and then 100x on leather. It made an improvement, but don't know if I can make it better. I don't know why the Chromium Oxide film didn't work for me. What can I expect from the edge off the 8K Norton, how will I know when I am done?

Thanks for all the replies