Thread: On top of the world after honing with my verte coticule, hoping for good shave.

Hey,
sorry to hear it didn't work out for you. I have been at the straights for 2 years now and still havn't made the jump to try my own honing. Alot of the storys I read here scare me lol. But I am thinking of ordering the norton 4k/8k combo stone very soon to try my hand at it. Do you think that would be a good starting point for me? I am only going to be maintaing the edges on two dovo razors I bought from lynn. They are in great shape right now and don't need any bevel setting. just a quick sharpen here and there. I don't want to create another one of those "what stone should I buy" posts lol. so thought I would squeeze in the question here! thanks

Tried more with the coti today. Plain water only, very light pressure, clean stone. Polish improved with many strokes. Stropped linen and leather. Really gave it my A-game stropping. Looks better but I'm not convinced yet. I will shave test this one again, but have another razor on backup. Thanks guys for the advice and heartfelt support.

Michael

Congrat's on the monster Coti. I think I saw that one on the classifieds. Good buy. IMO, all things being equal, a hone that size will be a lot easier to use than a bout, or a small rectangle.

Michael

Justalex, I feel very unqualified to speak of how to use a coti. Only in the last month or so have the edges really been that good.

I started out using no pressure. For me, that was a mistake. In a kind and generous phone conversation, Lynn suggested a process that gave a big improvement, especially w/ the monster LPB. 'Fairly reliable shaveable edge in a few min, but at that point I still hit the low-mid 8k level of keenness. It was 40 circles, each direction, each side with moderately heavy pressure, followed by 20 x-strokes w/ same pressure. Dilute slurry to about 1/2 that consistency, repeat w/ heavy pressure. Repeat w/ same slurry, using no pressure. One more sequenc on water with no pressure and only 5-10 x-strokes. The LPB gave a shave every time. The Dressante, I couldn't get to work. Now, I start w/ LPB, transition to the Dressante w/ med-light slurry. First sequence is moderate to light pressure, checking for any sections left behind. Any slow sections, I repeat w/ 20 circles, focusing on that section and the transition to the sections immediately adjacent. First 10 circles have light pressure, 2nd 10 have none. For me, the transition from pressure to no pressure seems to have been quite important.

I've tried going further w/ mineral oil on top, and even a paste of bees wax cut w/ turpentine, suggested by the wonderful Emmanuel on Coti.be. Sometimes works well, and get very high keenness. I've had less regular results w/ the mineral oil, but Disburden has had very satisfying results from it. 'Seems like each rock and each person has to flail about to find the recipe for their rock.

The honorable Bloodhoundman let me know the big rock is on its way. 'Can't wait. The only other rock that has me provoked is that Gokumyo 20k. The two users that responded to my ignorant questions were divided on the smoothness, but that's more fixable w/ a jnat or Thuri. 'Seems to be an alternative to the high grit shaptons. They want serious coin for that rock, so it prob. won't happen anytime soon.

MJS, I'm as excited as you'd guess about the big Veinette. I tried to buy from Maurice at Ardennes, and the prices exceeded the cost of a quality jnat. 'Probably would have been a good stone, but I'm just not ready to part w/ that much for a coti, already having a couple bouts (6x2 and 1.5 x 9). I paid ALOT for a 7x2 Nak. Asagi from Yamashita-san at Japan tool. Good edges came quickly. A couple hundred blades later, I've become a very happy guy. I tried one Nak. Kiita edge from a skilled member, and it was good, but a bit on the crispy side, compared to the asagi. Other say they love the keenness from the jnat, but then take the edge to other stones to smooth it out. What makes me so satisfied w/the asagi is that both are available w/ the right technique, which usually involves alot more strokes than a normal finisher, and keeping a very very light slurry on the surface. Others probably know how to obtain such edges with a proper technique. For now, I must be satisfied w/ stumbling awkwardly into a fine edge using way too many strokes. Reports from recipients of the edges seems encouraging.

Keep going, MJS. If the Verte is the only stone right now, keep working different techniques. If it would be helpful to have an edge refreshed, pm me. Pick up postage & honing is free. I have alot of empathy for one trying to learn the coti. Its been a tough rock for me.

If your coticule is improving the edge as slowly as you seem to be describing, then you may have a really slow stone. You might try a little more slurry and not diluting as fast.

The LPB is incredibly fast. The Dressante is very slow. It was, in fact, the use of more slurry when coming off another stone that brought the joy from the Dressante. I used to go from coti to Nani 12 to Asagi. Now, just coti to asagi.

Originally Posted by myersn024

If your coticule is improving the edge as slowly as you seem to be describing, then you may have a really slow stone. You might try a little more slurry and not diluting as fast.

This has been my thinking. I am going to do a small shave test first but if that doesn't work, then I'm going to hit it with some pressure on a milky slurry. After I'm 100% sure the bevel is set, I'm going to do dilutions again, except with 20 or thirty strokes in between. Good Idea?

Originally Posted by pinklather

Keep going, MJS. If the Verte is the only stone right now, keep working different techniques. If it would be helpful to have an edge refreshed, pm me. Pick up postage & honing is free. I have alot of empathy for one trying to learn the coti. Its been a tough rock for me.

Thanks for the offer. I have Nortons, Naniwa 12k, plus a few natural stones. Several of my other razors are shaving sharp, and I'm getting better on the hones all the time. Just now trying to get something out of this coticule so I can do more than just look at it. Would like to see one of your honing jobs someday though. Maybe we could trade razors. When I get something done on this coticle I can see what you think of the edge, and you send me one honed on your veinette.

Michael

Originally Posted by mjsorkin

This has been my thinking. I am going to do a small shave test first but if that doesn't work, then I'm going to hit it with some pressure on a milky slurry. After I'm 100% sure the bevel is set, I'm going to do dilutions again, except with 20 or thirty strokes in between. Good Idea?l

All the videos that I've watched on dilucot honing use something in the neighborhood of 20 strokes on each side of the bevel before diluting with a single drop of water. You may have to do something in the neighborhood of 10 to 15 dilutions before rinsing and finishing on clean water. Keep in mind that I haven't successfully honed a razor this way, either. My coticule is too slow to work well without a real slurry stone.

I am struggling with the Coti as well. That said, last week my major break through was that my rock is indeed much slower than average. On a recommendation from another member, I did 100 strokes on just water, with the last 30 being almost no pressure, and my shave improved dramatically.

Pinklather, I'm a beginner at this as well. I've had my coticule for a year and just in the last couple months got super edges. I got a standard coticule bout which Bart and other members estimated to be a Dressante, which I also had a problem with getting edges from it and sometimes still do, until I realised less is more.

I rely on the TPT and armhair test; if the TPT is grippy AND it cuts armhair easily I try and stay on the same slurry with light circles and halfstrokes then dilute from there. Somtimes I can go 4 dilutions and be ready for the very thin water layer followed by under the tap.
Is your Dressante relatively hard and slow on water?

One major problem that I had was drying slurry. I felt the slurry on the razor drying which I felt was dulling the edge and felt like I had a slow stone, sometimes I could do a razor in ten minutes sometimes I would spend that alone on honing a bevel dulled on glass.

My dressante dries out alot quicker than my BBW and la verte and I noticed I got great easily obtained edges on both these but not the dressante. So I rinse the razor, flick it and use the water on the razor to dilute also making sure the slurry on the dressante is not dry, if it is I move it around with my slurry stone, making sure the whole surface stays wet and I use light strokes after the bevel setting stage until water where I do slow super light xstrokes.

My consistency has went through the roof after this. I don't even do that many strokes under the tap, if everything else before was done properly I don't think you need to. Just finish on the very thin water stage (especially if you have a hard coticule which I assume the dressante usually are)

regards Alex