Thread: The "Rocky Road" to SHARP!

Hey guys so after getting bit buy the hone "bug" during JaNorton i looked in to picking up a modest.....for now.....honing set up to continue to learn how to hone my own razors! Luckily i have a few ebay & antique shop razors that are in fine enough condition to get shaving with and didn't cost much so wont be the END of the world if i ruin them! So last night as i was working i though ya know i don't see may honing journals on the site so i figured i would start one to keep my question and observations in one place and as well have a central place to go for the answers (assume you guys feel like helping me out!!! HAHAHA) so here goes:

First is my modest Collection of Tools... FAR from what Glen's IS! but hey that guys does it ALL the time i am just starting out!!!

DMT325
Norton 220/1k
Chosera 1k
Norton 4/8k
Coticule
"Thuringian" (i put it in quotes bc i got it form AJ on ebay and he had been listing it as that prior to my purchase and now doesn't)
Vintage Echter Thuringer (ECHTER being german for REAL...and not to be mistaken for a mistype of ESCHER....some day maybe)
.5 CrOx
.5 Diamond Spray (CrOx and Diamond Sprays on SRD Paddle Strop)
.25 Diamond Spray

The "Thuringian" and the Echter (as i will refer to it as) are small the latter being the smallest but what they lack in size they seem to make up in speed and finish but we will get to that.......

Starting out:

So i got the Chosera using a Gift Card to SRD and after asking around here and talking to Lynn that this seems to be the most popular...i had "used" (if you can even call it that) the Norton 1k but for some reason didn't really like the feel. It seemed spongy and a bit to soft for my TOTALLY untrained liking but hey HAD has to start someplace right???? So i picked up the Chosera and the Paddle strop to have a good start of tools!

I grid lapped the Chosera with the DMT325 much the way Glen shows him lapping his Nortons in his video.....it took about 4 grids to get it to a useable place and i then let it soak for about 5 more minutes as i set everything else up....

RAZORS:

I picked two razors that were cheap but gonna be able to shave IF i can get them there....
the First was a NEW ENGLAND RAZOR Co. made in BOSTON (maybe) that is a bit over 6/8 Square Point nothing fancy here but a user
the Second was a EDWARD WECK: RIGIDEDGE 5/8 French Point...horn scales that need to be replaced but that will happen soon enough.....why spend time replacing scales if you mess up the edge cause you can't hone!

PROGRESSION:

So here is where you guys will be a HUGE help.....because i am SURE and THANKFUL you all will point out the very MANY "What The....." moments...

I decided to use almost the same stones throughout the process except for the finishers to see if i could tell the difference in the event i get them actually shaveable!

I started both out on the Chosera which comes with a Brown slurry stone (i assume) but i'm not sure i am using correctly....i did a few circles with it on the 1k and diluted it while i went for both razors i did:

3 sets of 20 circles in each direction
3 sets of 10-15 X strokes

after each "set" of Circles and X Strokes i sprayed down the stone and did TNT, TPT and Arm/Leg hair test (no not all 3 but one in that order after each set)

I did notice that on the Arm/Leg hair test that it seemed MUCH easier to remove hair in the WTG direction than the ATG direction is this something i should be worried about....ie is the bevel not evenly set on both sides if this is the case??

Well unsure if i should stay on the 1k after the Hair test and getting it to cut the entire length of the blade i went on...foolishly maybe......

I then went to the Norton 4k did a few 8's with the DMT to clean it off and went to town....

This time i used the Norton Prep Slurry Stone but wasn't sure if i should have/could have just skipped this....i did almost the same routine i used on the 1k but DID NOT do the TNT i also added a few more X strokes at the end and did the 3 sets of 40 circles and 10-15 X's and then ADDED 20 X strokes before moving on.....is this needed or is there a better/different way to work on the 4k?

Moving forward i went to the Coti.....and here is were i really go into the world of the UNKNOWN...having read up a bunch and talking to the guy i got this stone from i pressed on hoping not to screw up the past work. I raised a small amount to slurry with the DMT (3 strokes worth) and diluted as i went. i did probably about 60-80 X strokes ONLY checking with the 30x loupe and TPT test every 20 or so the seller had said the blade would get a sticky feeling as it got closer to done and i will say it did and i found that this stone seemed to my-untrained-self kind of fast both on the slurry and on just water (i removed all the slurry about half way thru the X strokes) so here i am wondering....is there a good gauge of how much is to much...ie feel or visual or test goal...AND...is there much advantage to going and buying a coti slurry stone.... At this point the edge felt good, looked good and was popping hairs like crazy...but still was a tad easier on the WTG direction so i moved ahead.....

Here is where i switched it up with the 2 blades......

on the New England i used the "Thuringian" there is a small slurry stone with it but i DIDN'T use it....should i have used it?....i did about a total of 60 X strokes just with water checking with the loupe every 20 or so and then one final Arm/Leg hair test....the hair "ran" away in both WTG and ATG but still easier (ie less "work") in the WTG

on the Edward Weck i used the "Etcher" as i mentioned before this is a TINY stone but it seemed to me to make up in speed what it lacked in size......i used about 40 X stokes and it looked and felt VERY close to the New England...again using just water since i have no slurry stone for this.....so i stopped....​any suggestions on a slurry stone for this?

Now on to the stropping....

I did it a little different with the two but not much.....

i used the .5 CrOx on Scrub leather pad and the .5 & .25 Diamond Spray on the Hard Wool Felt pads

for the New England i used the .5 CrOx and the .25 Diamond Spray and did 20 laps on each
for the Edward Weck i used the .5 & .25 Diamond Spray and as well did 20 laps on each

is my lap count too high OR low in this stage??

at this point i went to my IL 827 and did 40 laps on the hard linen and 100 on the leather and the edges looked great under the loupe and were still quickly removing the hair from the Arm/Leg test but STILL a tad more effort was needed in the ATG direction.....

So all in all prior to the shave test....which will be coming up here this evening it looks good but looks as we all know can be deceiving.

As you can probably tell question are in blue and i welcome any and ALL advice, comments or concerns you guys have or see! I will be logging most if not all my honing progress here and Thanks guys in advance for the help i have and will, hopefully, get! couldn't do it with out you guys!!!

Thanks for posting! You've got a great honing setup. I envy your Thuringen as I had a chance to use one last week and really liked the feel. That stone will likely be one of my next HAD grabs.

There really, really, truly isn't a recipe for honing. We aren't just saying it just to be trite. So shave with the blade and then you can tell us whether you used to many strokes somewhere. Next, you should learn how to read the blade as it gets sharper. Technically, it's hard to tell from here. You're using a slew of varied equipment. Wanna guess why it's not recommended? instead of a rocky road to sharp you might be better off paving one smooth path at a time.

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

There really, really, truly isn't a recipe for honing. We aren't just saying it just to be trite. So shave with the blade and then you can tell us whether you used to many strokes somewhere. Next, you should learn how to read the blade as it gets sharper. Technically, it's hard to tell from here. You're using a slew of varied equipment. Wanna guess why it's not recommended? instead of a rocky road to sharp you might be better off paving one smooth path at a time.

Yeah I agree, that is an enormous amount of stones to learn on all at once for someone starting out. Unless you plan on learning to get the most out of one stone at a time before moving on you will probably end up getting frustrated. A common conclusion when learning to hone is that you'll get better edges by buying expensive or exotic stones which isn't true. Sounds like a great setup to have though, just take it one stone at a time.

Hey guys thanks for the replies!! I guess the question that comes up for me is where next then? I was getting good comfortable shaves off the 8k and what i thought was as good as i could get. would you suggest going 8k to the Coti and get competent with that or would it be better to try and do a one stone with just the Coti and then use a line up??

thanks again guys...and no shave test tonight SWMBO came home from work sick and had to play Dr. (and no not THAT kind of play Dr. HAHAHAHA dirty minded wet shavers ) so i will get it done tomorrow morning!

When I read "the rocky road to sharp" I seen you eating Ben and Jerry's while honing. :P

Originally Posted by BenjamanBarker

Hey guys thanks for the replies!! I guess the question that comes up for me is where next then? I was getting good comfortable shaves off the 8k and what i thought was as good as i could get. would you suggest going 8k to the Coti and get competent with that or would it be better to try and do a one stone with just the Coti and then use a line up??

If you're getting good shaves off the 8k, I'd say continue your progression to the 8k and then add one of your finishers. One stone honing is fun to try, but if you've got the synthetics down, then there's no reason not to use them before moving to your coticule or thuringian.

Hey all so today was the day i finally got to do the shave test!!!

I did my normal prep Shower & Proraso, used MWF and tried both razors! the results were a SOLID ok! It was not by far my closest shave BUT there wasn't any pulling, or tugging and very little "sting" from the Alum block! I will say that the New England shaved a bit better than the Weck but it wasn't a huge amount better! So moving forward, and i am probably gonna stick with these two razors for a while but not use them both like i did today, here is what i was thinking my next step should be and look to you more Pro guys for advice......

i am not sure i need to take the razor all the way back to the 1k seeing as how it DID in fact shave but maybe i'm wrong.......?
i think i should probably go back to the 4k and here again is where you guys can help me....during JaNorton i didn't a pyramid should i go back and do a 4/8 pyramid or is this again "ADDING" to much and should i do the 3 sets of circles and 60-90 X strokes on each??

i am def gonna take the pervious advice and not use so many tools and use just the Coti with water as a finnish unless again you guys would advise against this. Like i said this was an okay shave and i feel it always adds a little bit "more" when you use a razor that you have gotten shaveable on your own...well and with the help of everyone Here!

thanks guys!

I'm gonna give you my 2 cents even though it's really only worth 1, hehehe.

I was and am still in the exact place you are. I have encountered the 'ok' shave off the 8k. Then added in the CNat finisher and it got better. I added in a few laps at the end on the diamond (5 laps) and it got better, I added in 10 on the CrOx and it got better.

What I decided when I encountered one that was just 'ok' was to go back just 1 step, ie. to the 8k and then up again, and they got better. I sure wasn't going all the way back to the 1k unless it just plain sucked. Which they didn't.

SO for me, a few more laps on the Cnat and they got better.

One thing I just recently learned was that too many on the diamond paddles and the edge got blazingly sharp and kind of harsh, so more stropping on the leather was called for to smooth it up a touch.

So there is my 2 cents (or 1 cent as the case may be!!).

Thanks for the blog and keep it going!!

Mike

Originally Posted by BenjamanBarker

i am not sure i need to take the razor all the way back to the 1k seeing as how it DID in fact shave but maybe i'm wrong.......?

Do you have a microscope? If so, what power(s) of magnification?

I really don't see a need to go too far under the grit of the finishing stone/edge you are looking to experiment with. For me, I have gone to the immediate pre-curser of the hone I was curious about. No more than that. But I'm not in your exploratory and enthusiastic world of newbiness! I hope you are also learning with optics, though, if you're taking it this far.