Thread: Edge that only lasts a few passes

Hi Guys,

I've been honing razors for about a year now. I'm guessing over 100 razors by now. But recently I had a customer with a new Dovo say his razor stopped shaving half way through his shave. I asked him if it keened up after stropping but have not heard from him yet. Then yesterday I had a customer bring an Art of Shaving straight razor. After honing it was showing similar results. I test shaved a few passes it stopped shaving. Dull as dull. Nothing from the thumb pad test. I strop it up. Zingo bango the thumb pad test says yikes that a sharp one, nice gummy feel. Shave a few more passes dull as dull, strop and sharp again. I looked at it under a 30x loop and the bevel looked good, high polish to shaving edge, no defects in the edge, no bur, no foil, just an edge.

I set the bevel on a 1000 Norton then moved up 4000 Norton then 8000 Norton then 12000 Chinese wet then 15000 Chinese wet then strop linen the leather, a few passes on a glassy Swaty, strop linen then leather.

I have never had this issue with any vintage straight razors. I found it added that I had two in a row that dull so fast yet keen up with with simple stropping. I generally strop 15-20 laps on both linen and leather.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? I don't have the razors anymore they have been given back to the customer.

Thanks,
Mike

Originally Posted by mbrando

I looked at it under a 30x loop and the bevel looked good, high polish to shaving edge, no defects in the edge, no bur, no foil, just an edge.

Sometimes a higher powered microscope or even a look under bright sunlight is necessary to confirm or deny what you see at 30x.
No offence but at 12mths /100 razors you may be missing something subtle in the image. Can happen to any of us.

If a rehoning gave the same results, it's possibly a fault of the razor i.e. heat treat etc. but 2 in a row is odd.

Could it be the customers are newbs & are stropping heavily or poorly. This should be obvious under magnification tho.

Did you look at the edge before you stropped or rehoned it? It might have been overhoned that's all I can think of.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Sometimes a higher powered microscope or even a look under bright sunlight is necessary to confirm or deny what you see at 30x.
No offence but at 12mths /100 razors you may be missing something subtle in the image. Can happen to any of us.

If a rehoning gave the same results, it's possibly a fault of the razor i.e. heat treat etc. but 2 in a row is odd.

Could it be the customers are newbs & are stropping heavily or poorly. This should be obvious under magnification tho.

The art of shaving razor I did re-hone once. The first time I thought I missed something. I often do use a bright light looking at the edge. You can see if things are not right even without magnification. The edge looked okay, but I dropped back down to 1k about 20 laps, it felt good on the thumb pad and shaved hair hair, moved up and it was acting strange again.

Did you look at the edge before you stropped or rehoned it? It might have been overhoned that's all I can think of.

Yes, looked at it in the light, not with a loop though. Could be over honing. If the bevel is good, It usually only take about 15-20 minutes for me to tune up a razor. So I did not spend a lot of time on the hones. If I get them back I'll put them under the USB microscope and take some photos. Maybe I'm doing something different in my process. The nortons have been lapped flat recently. I have not lapped the 12k or 15k for a while. Maybe they need some attention. They look flat with a rule but the faces are getting glassy.

Thought I'd throw it out there for comments. If I figure it out I'll post back.

Thanks,
Mike

Drop all the BS and do an Norton 4/8 and strop and shave...

No sense in doing anything else if that won't hold...

Is the bevel well and truly set ???? if there isn't a full well set bevel you can get a false edge...

I would concentrate on the bevel set then 4/8 and go from there

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Drop all the BS and do an Norton 4/8 and strop and shave...

No sense in doing anything else if that won't hold...

Is the bevel well and truly set ???? if there isn't a full well set bevel you can get a false edge...

I would concentrate on the bevel set then 4/8 and go from there

BS?? ... either way I bet it's and issue with the bevel not being correct, as noted. The more I think about it, that is the only thing it can be. I'm going to get the blades back from the customer and get them tuned.

- Mike

Originally Posted by mbrando

BS?? ... either way I bet it's and issue with the bevel not being correct, as noted. The more I think about it, that is the only thing it can be. I'm going to get the blades back from the customer and get them tuned.

- Mike

What Glen is saying is finishing on high grit is moot if theres an issue, you can be wasting your time...

This is not meant to be derogatory in the least, but it almost makes me feel good that some experienced honing people are experiencing an issue I had with a couple of razors. It really hurts your confidence when you successfully hone a few and then all of a sudden you can't bring one around that "everybody" says shaves like a dream.

The advice I received is pretty much the same as I'm reading here. When in doubt and have tried everything that has worked for you in the past, start over. That's what I ultimately did with two problem razors. One of the two still didn't respond after that. It was a Red Imp, which seems to be universally liked. Finally I bought two balsa strops, one covered with chromium oxide (the green paste) and the other with diamond slurry spray. The seller of those two balsa strops (Ron at Star Shaving) said to do 30-40 laps each with those, then 80-100 laps with the leather. Finally, the Red Imp came around. This morning I sent Ron a thank you email.

I think this is the reason I remain interested in straight shaving and other people think I'm nuts for being excited about such a mundane daily ritual. They use disposables and cartridges and I can understand in that context why they think I'm crazy. Once you feel like you've earned your stripes, a curve ball is thrown at you and you seek resolution from a community of shavers.

In one of gssixgun's honing videos, he sets the bevel then runs the edge across the corner of the 1k (I think?) hone (intentional dulling) then re-sets the bevel on the 1k again. I've found this to be really useful on toothy, crumbly or overhoned edges. Maybe this would help

Originally Posted by rodb

In one of gssixgun's honing videos, he sets the bevel then runs the edge across the corner of the 1k (I think?) hone (intentional dulling) then re-sets the bevel on the 1k again. I've found this to be really useful on toothy, crumbly or overhoned edges. Maybe this would help

I do a ton of restore, and coming off the buffers the edge can be a bit "Toothy" as you put it, I have found that "Killing the edge" just eliminates tons of problems, and it is really just that easy..

Also this reminds me of a Livi that came to me with much the same problem as Mike is describing, and I fixed it exactly with what Rod just noted. Part of the bevel had never been completely set and what was happening was the edge in certain spots was falling apart from the shave, and causing real pulling after a pass or two... Hit the finishers and you tweak it enough to pass all the tests except the second shaving pass test..

I killed that edge reset the bevel, killed and reset it again, then took it up, as far as I know the razor is still shaving..

BUT you could see the problem by looking at 30X, the bevel was so thin in spots it was almost invisible..

Each razor has to be anylized and the problem solved there is no set solution we can only offer our experiences, and my biggest expierience is that most every honing problem is actually in the bevel stage...

Which is why I said reset the bevel, do a 4/8 and then shave test, that eliminates the variables of 1/2 of Mike's honing progression...