Thread: New Microscope – Buyer’s remorse?

I’ve been honing razors for a while now with good results using only a 10X jeweler’s loupe. But I wanted something a bit stronger to assist me as I test new stones, pastes, honing methods, etc. Based on some recommendations in various threads, I bought a new AmScope 20X-40X stereo microscope (this one). It seems to be a quality piece of kit and produces clear images.

To test the microscope I looked at two razors: 1) a Boker that shaves like a dream, and 2) a TI that shaves, but pulls significantly. The problem is that I can detect no discernible difference between the two razors under the microscope. I was hoping that the higher magnification would be instructive, but it’s not. (I am 100% confident that I can get the TI shaving again – that’s not the issue -- but I was hoping to actually be able to SEE the difference between the two razors.)

Perhaps the microscope is best suited for inspecting the bevel setting stage only? But if so, my 10X loupe was serving this role just fine. Or maybe I don’t know what to look for? Or maybe I’m looking at the edge at the wrong angle(s)? Or maybe I need to buy the WF20X eyepiece to increase the magnification to 80X?

Anyhow, any thoughts on how to maximize the benefit of my new toy would be greatly appreciated. Thanks a million!

Brian

My Experiance also,Life was better pre-80X scope,blades that shaved to perfection became dogs after looking at them under mag. (is a mental thing I am sure).
The one thing I do Like it for is as you said,bevel setting and on older blades getting past areas of minor rust and corrosion, back to good steel.
I also love looking at blades that are honed by some of the best honemeisters in the business,can be very informative,at least I find it so.

Nice unit @_@ With the built in light can you see the scratch patterns on the bevel? I find with my handheld scope that the angle of the light makes a huge difference. Higher magnification(60-100x) makes it easier to confirm if too much pressure is being used - swiss cheese effect and over honing - jagged/chipped edges with little wire edge danglies sprouting off.

Not that I have a lot of knowledge with this specifically. I have one straight razor and a cheap-o microscope. You might want to try some side lighting at various angles. About any not too bright flashlight should throw some shadows and reflect off other surfaces. If lighting and angles work in the big world, the concepts should work down to about the atomic level.

A magnifier will tell you nothing about how sharp a razor is. It just tells you the physical condition of the edge which may or may not be a contributing factor if the razor isn't shaving well. It's good to check for chips and imperfections in the edge.

I am trying to rememeber who said it on here " I was having tons of trouble getting rid of all the scratch patterns to improve my edge, found the problem was I needed a lower power magnifier, my edge improved overnight and so did the shave"

I want one of those USB dohickeys so I can take those pics and hang out with the cool kids

I haven't used magnification or a loupe in over a year, I don't find it needed anymore. All I do is hone to 8K level and test shave and if all is good there then I will add finishing steps or a Japanese Nagura progression to finish the blade.

TI steel can be harder than other razors and your bevel may not be set all the way. When you set the bevel does it shave arm hair or pop arm hair at the skin? Does it feel the same from the toe to the heel of the blade when you make that test? I would move past 1K level until the edge:

1) feels smooth on the stone and there is no rough parts, especially on the tip of the blade.

2) hair is cut at least on skin level from toe to heel with the same feeling, even.

Which stones did you use?

Microscopes are cool for taking pictures and posting threads but other than that I haven't needed it...

I have the same microscope.

This part is more for others reading, not so much for the OP:
Magnification with a single objective lens gives you a 2D image to look at. When you use a stereo microscope, there are two objectives, so the image you're looking at is in 3D. This allows for much better inspection of the edge of something, because you have better depth perception, and aren't reliant on monocular cues for that. Magnification on a stereo microscope typically only goes up to 80x. FWIW, I had a nice lab microscope with good optics that went up to 1000x (I usually only went up to 400x) and I didn't get as much information from what I saw there as I do from my stereo microscope at 40x.
Finally: to be clear I am not saying you need to go out and buy a stereo microscope for honing, I just wanted to clear up the differences, because typically when we talk magnification here, we are talking about viewing through one objective.


To the OP:

Think of it like HHT - a stereo-microscope microscope will tell you when you're close, but you still have to shave to know for sure.

I use the white field for the stage, and I look at the blade from a few different directions:
1 - I put it on the stage with the bevel flat to look at the scratch pattern.
2 - I tilt it up with the edge toward from the lenses to look at the silhouette of the edge
3 - I tilt it up with the edge away the lenses to look at the bevel.

When I look at the bevel, I have the razor tilted up at about 45 degrees, and turned about 45 degrees from a line between the lenses. I find it's easier for my brain to put together a stereo-image when there's a cleaner definition between what each eye sees (like this \\ instead of this -- ).

I find it's easiest to view the razor by keeping one hand on the focus knob and the other on the razor. Once you get used to it you can move the razor around pretty quickly and keep it in focus. OTOH, a former member here that inspired me to get a stereo-microscope just leaves the focus set to somewhere above the stage and moves the razor around to bring it in focus.

I bought 20x eyepieces with mine, and never use them. I find the optics are good enough quality that I get enough definition at 40x to see what I need to. Going to 80x narrows the field of view and causes vignetting which, for me, is distracting.

What to look for?
It will take some practice, because after the bevel is set the changes that we're making to the edge are in microns... First, I like to look at the scratch pattern as I move up. That isn't a 100% indicator of shave quality, but it does tell me how long it takes a particular stone to change the scratches on a particular steel.
Then I like to silhouette the edge and look at it. The bevel is set when no more light reflects off the silhouette (I still check arm-hair just to be sure). Once the bevel is set look for tiny bits of jaggedness - these are subtle but definitely viewable. Finally look for any micropitting or burr development or areas that the steel is broken out. These can be subtle as well.

Probably the most useful thing with mine in learning to use it was honing razors that had problem areas in the blade - part of it was shaving good, and part of it wasn't quite there. In those cases it's really easy to compare the good area and the bad area and see the difference.
Remember, just like anything - the more practice / experience you have the easier it gets.

Finally, I still shave test the razors as well as using other tests during honing. I have a lot more confidence in the microscope as time goes on, but it's still just a tool.

Mikes are good to see if burrs, microchips etc are the problem. It won't tell you anything about sharpness. If you see no problems you at least know that a final polisher is called for. Sharpness is something you can feel not see.

These are all great responses, guys! Special thanks to HNSB for taking the time to write such a detailed response. Much appreciated.

I re-honed the TI and it now shaves perfectly. Getting the razor to shave wasn’t the issue; I was just disappointed that my $100 investment didn’t help in any way.

I honed another razor and the microscope was helpful when setting the bevel. But the verdict is still out as to whether or not it added much over what the 10X loupe was already showing me.

I moved my microscope into the lightbox I used to photograph razors and I played with shining some defused light on the razor at different angles. This seemed to sharpen the image a bit. Perhaps over time, and further experimentation with some of the suggestions above, I’ll grow to appreciate my new tool. I’ll keep everyone posted.