Thread: wet & dry sand paper

got you man, didnt mean to upset ya, just making a newb assumption.

Originally Posted by celticstone

got you man, didnt mean to upset ya, just making a newb assumption.

It wasn't you who got me upset. It was the fact that Ernest's misinformed horror stories about hone-gouging and the implication that a $280 Shapton is the only viable alternative to the scary sharp system actually got at least one person going. Here's some straight-up info:

1) For the 20GBP that you'd spend on some sandpaper that would be good for a bunch of honings you could get a pair of 4k/8k Japanese slip-stones or an 8k equivalent ceramic stone (ask Robert about those) that will last you for the rest of your life and enough money left over to buy a pint at the local pub.
2) These hones will get you up to the point of being able to go to abrasive pastes. $10 of leather, some rubber cement and a couple of MDS scraps (gratis) will get you a couple of bench hones or two-sided paddle strops. Handamerican sells 0.5 micron abrasive powder that can easily be combined with water or oil into a paste for about $24 for a POUND. That's lifetime supply for 3 people's honing needs.
3) For the same initial investment that you'd make for sand-paper you could have more reliable honing tools.
4) You cannot gouge a hone by accident while honing a razor. And even if you do, you can just lap the hone flat and still have enough of it left to last you a lifetime.

I tell ya what people. Don't listen to either of us, go try both systems for yourself and see what you like best.

Fact, Sandpaper can be used for honing. The investment required for each can be easily checked out by any member on the web.

I am not saying scary sharp is better for everyone. But you can check it out and decide for yourselves.

And firestart, you have totally munderstood my point about gouging. If you have bad technique you can gouge the stone or tear the paper. You say it is not possible to gouge the stone if you are doing things right. Sure, and it is not possible to nick the strop if you are doing it right, but it still happens to plenty of people!

Firestart tell me more about the 8k ceramic stones for $40 please.

Ernest, if a newb reads any of the help files on honing, he won't be using a technique that comes anywhere near the risk of gouging a hone.
As for the 8k ceramic hone, I saw it for sale @ Lee Valley for $36.50CA (which is about 18GBP). Here it is http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...28&cat=1,43072. I don't know how well that particular stone will work b/c Robert worked with Spyderco but I don't see why it wouldn't be comparable performance-wise. I've worked with 2x4 slip stones and got my first few blades shave ready exclusively with them before getting the Norton. They cost me about $30CA (15GBP). It's possible to get superb results from budget gear, so a $280 Shapton isn't the only alternative to scary sharp. However, it would be nice to have a set of those babies

To the best of my knowledge the Scary Sharp System has never been fully utilized on straight razors by a large group of people. Most of us are unaware of where to purchase the higher grit 3M films. Keith at www.handamerican was one of the first to make available a full range of grits suitable for use on a razor. Much to my chagrin I have not yet used them.

The sandpaper may work and it would be an inexpensive test.
My hesitations about sandpaper stem from the experience I have had with it. Usually I use a 1000 grit wet/dry to remove nicks and old oxidised edges. That works well. The difficulty comes from the ease of gouging the sandpaper. Thankfully it is inexpensive.

I tried using a 2000 grit wet/dry as a substitute for a 4000 waterstone and then following that with a finer stone but that does not work. The reason why has to do with the ever so slight rounding of the edge that occurs with the sandpaper.
The sandpaper is composed of 3 parts
1. The backing material, which has a slight give
2. Resin or bonding agent, which may have a slight give
3. Abrasive grain

The rounding of the razors edge that occurs from the 2000 grit wet/dry is to much for a 8000 grit hone to overcome without a ton of time.

If the Scary Sharp System works, and it should, a person would need to use only sandpaper and no traditional hones. This is because of the "give" in the backing of the sandpaper and the resulting slight rounding of the edge. It would probably be advantageous to finish with abrasive pasted paddle strop's. With tha being said I can also see where a very practised touch would be required to avoid gouging the sandpaper.

It would be an inexpensive method to start with but the long term price advantage would be with the traditional hones.

(I really do have to try Keiths sandpapers!)