Thread: Can't fugure out why my coti don't work

A good hone will perform well irrespective of the lubricant you use. Are you sure this is a coticule suitable for polishing straights?

I'd suggest you start with a blank slate and re-read the unicot and dilucot papers on coticule.be (the other stuff on there is also very interesting, by the way) and start with doing only unicots. It is a much more straight-forward method and you'll result with an edge identical to a dilucot edge and if it is impossible for you to get a good shaving edge doing unicot than it will definately be impossible to get a good shaving edge doing dilucot on the smae stone with the same razor.

unicot
dilucot

Strange to hear that unicot doesn't work, because I've done that quite a bit and have not got one unsatisfactory result.

Please note that for a coticule to work (and logically I assume for all other types of hones) the bevel must be set properly (I use the thumb pad test, looking for an edge that really sticks to my wet thumb).

Also note that coticules on water alone do not add sharpness, they only polish the edge, adding smoothness. All the sharpening of the edge has to be done before using water only.

I am inclined to believe (along with a fair number of very experienced coticule users) that there is no such thing as 'bad coticules', only 'different coticules' that can demand quite a wide variety of approaches (mainly in doing dilucot, though). That is, unless we're talking about a coticule with minor inclusions that come loose while honing; they will just damage your edge. I have five coticules, all different strata and only one that is unusable as it has such inclusions. You can see these inclusions with the naked eye even in a slurry, in mine they look like grains of sand.

Some coticules are less suited for establishing a bevel than others, but if the bevel is set on another stone there should be no problem.

To answer your questions, First off I am using a razor that was shave ready and slightly dulled on a glass. 2. When I start with a slurry it gets dark within about 8 or10 passes, 3.Some on here have said they got good results with oil when they didn't with water, that is why I said I might try oil. 4.I have tried heavy to light slurry to water as I said, Unicot dilucot,, Hundreds of passes, and again on a previously sharp razor,5.The cracks in the stone are so minute, they can,t be felt with a fingernail,and it is a yellow stone, 6.As for the hardness of the stone it is soft and gives the feeling of honing on chalk when using it. 7. I have tried both methods three times each without getting a shavable edge, however I will not put tape on my razors for any reason. I have established a nice bevel on them they way they should be..

Originally Posted by mackie

I have tried both methods three times each without getting a shavable edge, however I will not put tape on my razors for any reason. I have established a nice bevel on them they way they should be..

My suggestion is watch Lynn's video on "One stone Honing" he also does NOT use tape, and is starting the razors off a bevel set just like you, the Killing of the Edge on the glass is probably not needed, but it won't hurt if you do it right...


Quick test, subsitute in a Norton 8k for the Coticule and do everything the same if you have one, or someting in that range, Thuringen, Chinese, and see what the outcome is...
That will test your system, if the Norton works then the system is sound and you have to tweak for the Coticule...

I cant better the advice given already, I'm only chiming in because your coticule looks nearly identical to mine which seems to have the same bother of being able to shave very well but, not giving smoothness as much.
the only difference being mines seems very hard - not soft like yours - but strangely chalky to hone on like your coticule.

The only thing I can advise is slightly slow down your strokes and lighten them up a bit, my theory is the chalkyness indicates alot more particles hitting the edge than a smoother silky slurry, IMO creating a rougher edge. also does your coticule seem to slow down and hold back the speed of your strokes? sort of clinging onto the razor?
I can set bevels with little pressure after dulling on glass with the coticule I have. It seems the slurry cuts quick.
I would advise when finishing to try finishing on one half of the stone and then the other half to see if there is a discernible difference in edge.
I have found a marked improvement finishing on one half as opposed to the other.

I have an extremely hard la verte and bbw, both have very little inclusions and I have no problems getting keen smooth edges from either, but this coticule still gives me trouble sometimes, even after 2 years, I'm experimenting with it to the extremes now; very minute details like speed of stroke and subtle pressure differences and where on the coticule to hone... yes coticule honing has driven me nuts

I wish you luck with your coticule and I will keep on at mine and hopefully find a technique to work with these sometimes stubborn rocks...


regards Alex

All I can offer is one experience. It was an expensive coti that I couldn't get to "hit" no matter what ..... until I took a shave ready razor to it and after shaving with it once ... next day did water only finishing strokes on that problem child coti. The edge was definitely improved. So I don't know if that is any help. I did have a member send a coticule to me a couple of years ago for testing.

He had already sent it to someone else and they said they couldn't do anything with it. I tried and tried, one method after another, and had to give up in defeat and sent it back with condolences. So like I said before .... best of luck with it, hope you can figure it out.

Opinion follows:
For a finisher once it is flat enough never lap it again.
Use the rubbing stone to help keep it flat enough..

If the shave is not smooth enough hone with lather and rinse well when done.

Use as light a touch as you can. Slow and deliberate.

Five/six stroke pairs only,,,, strop at least twice and if it still feels dull
give it five more strokes on the hone.

Pull strokes work...I have been astounded with the edge from
only a small coti slurry stone.

Coti slurry on canvas is often a good thing in moderation.
(a bit of slurry from any finisher on canvas can be good.)

Once a razor is shave ready sharp stick to the finisher hones
8K and finer or your natural finisher. Almost no shave related
dullness justifies more grinding....

Originally Posted by mackie

First off I am using a razor that was shave ready and slightly dulled on a glass

however I will not put tape on my razors for any reason. I have established a nice bevel on them they way they should be..

I get the 'no tape' philosophy, but if you've put the edge to glass, you're essentially resetting your bevel anyway, so...

A simple, guaranteed way to check what kind of edge your stone can produce is to first get the razor smoothly shaving arm hair, then add a layer of tape and switch to the test stone to set a secondary/micro bevel. The reasoning is a) it's MUCH faster, even with a slow stone, and b) you can be sure the resulting edge is 100% due to your test stone. I'd do 10 light strokes, check the edge, and repeat.

If you don't go overboard with it, reestablishing a primary bevel afterwards won't be significantly different than doing so after dulling the edge on glass, imho.

Dulling a razor on glass is a bad idea on a razor that shaved well or
almost well yesterday. It is OK in a honing contest but it is
not a good idea if you want to shave.

What it takes to refresh an edge is way less than what it takes
to recover from dulled on a tumbler.

Bad idea... Dulling a razor on glass.... it is.

+1 on the above

The only time I'll intentionally dull a razor is if I detect a crumbly/chippy edge during bevel set, then I use the corner of my 1k and run a few passes, then start over on the 1k