Thread: The Point of Despair

Where do you live?

Honing a razor is a learned skill. Better stated, it's a set of learned skills. You just haven't learned enough of them yet. No big deal.

If it were an art, then I wouldn't be able to do it! I can't paint much of a picture and I can't even draw a conclusion.

It just takes some time and effort. You'll get there sooner than you think if you don't give up.

Rev, keep on gong mate and don't despair.

I'm new to the world of straight razors as well and also have a Norton 4/8k.

I struggled to set an edge on a 4/8k and found that I needed to get a 1k hone as well before I could get any meaningful results on an old Boker I've been playing around with.

I've ended up with a razor which is nowhere near as smooth and as sharp as one that has been professionally honed but it's just a question of time, patience and perseverance.

The learning curve with straights seems, to me, to be far steeper than the learning curve associated with DE razors; I struggle to shave my face with a straight to anywhere near the standard I can get with a DE and currently use a straight on the 25% or so of my head that most DE's struggle with.

I've also nearly destroyed a hanging strop before realising that I get on better with paddle strops and have chipped one razor badly trying to polish it with a Dremel. I know that I will get there one day and I'm pretty sure that you will too.

It might be worth investing in a 1k hone as it made a real difference for me.

Don't give up mate - as they say n the Martial Arts; 'Practice makes permanent'.

AJC347 and Rev, if I may. Get Lynn's old CD. He shows how to hone on Nortons in a pyramid. This CD is B.C. (Before Circles!). Look and listen. Go from there and form your own opinions on which way to go. Expand on that! Too many techniques tried at once will nearly always wind up failing. Keep in mind if it does not blow hairs off your arm the entire length of the bevel, you have to go to the 1000 (at least!) until it does before considering the 4000/8000. I feel it impossible to oversharpen on the 1000! I got started that way as I am sure many others have too, I feel it is best to stay with simple stuff and tried and true techniques before experimenting with anything. You need to know how to set a bevel and start over, too! The old ways are good ways, IMHO.
You shall get it. After all, you were smart enough to get the Nortons!

Well finding a mentor is the best idea. To begin with if you have no experience using a hone the first hurdle is going to be developing the muscle memory to hold the razor flat consistently every stroke while maintaining as little pressure as possible. You will find as you learn the less pressure you can exert while maintaining good contact with the stone the finer the edge when finished.

Just holding the razor with consistent contact and angle will be a challenge if you have never done anything similar. Your razor likely needs the bevel set if you haven't worked it on anything more coarse than a 4K.

Without a proper bevel the 4k/8k stone will be difficult to learn. Walking a away for another day is good advice I think we all follow. I would venture to speculate even Lynn has days less than optimal for honing.

Since you have been having no success with the 4k/8k get a stone closer to 1k and start by learning to set your bevel. When you can get the blade scary sharp at 1k (you should be able to strop up your razor and shave with it albeit not with the most comfort) then proceed up the the grits learning each one before moving higher. When you get to 8k you should be able to get a comfortable close shave and then you are ready to move to some kind of finisher.

When you watch videos of Lynn or GSSixgun working on a hone realize the smoothness of stroke you are observing is the result of countless hours of practice.

I hope you hook up with someone locally to work with you.

It just keeps getting better.

Rev

I've been there and I wanted to give up too. Then I got a mentor in afdavis. He answered every question I could think of and met up with me once to teach me one on one. Having his help gave me a huge boost.

I have my own style for honing and I'm having some success now. It just took practice and plenty of failure along the way.

It's not beyond you. Just keep at it.


Michael

Ps. I'd be happy to touch up your razor. Just pm me.

Go to youtube and find the video by gssixgun titled "gssixgun straight razor honing with speedster from srp." A good video for a beginner.

At the beginning I messed up like you did. You can also get overwhelmed if you start reading too much or watching too many videos. There's a lot of great information out there, but at times it can be too much, particularly since it is not all consistent.

What helped me early on was getting a 1k stone. After I had made my blades dull I could not do anything to get them sharp again. So I got a 1k and spent enough time on it to set the bevel, then worked up to the 4k and 8k.

Sometimes, the harder you try at something, particularly when you are new to it, the more frustrated you become. Honing is definitely something that takes practice. I have not seen anyone just pick up a hone and produce a nice shaving razor yet right out of the blocks. The more you push yourself sometimes, the worse the results are. Try walking away until another day when this happens. Also the recommendation to try to sit down with someone who has experience is a good one.

A little patience will go a long way. I still look at every razor as a challenge and I still walk away from some and try again with them the next day even after all the years and razors I have been through. Honing is truly more of a learned art than a science.

Take a step back and stick with it if you can. The rewards will come.

Have fun.

Are you just fooling with the one razor ? What razor, or razors, are you trying to hone ? Some are more difficult than others IME. If you've been using pressure try lightening up. Alternatively if you've been using 'weight of the blade' you may need to add a bit of pressure. In the SRP library you'll find the pyramid technique described. I found that effective for me when I was starting out. I also had plenty of frustration in the beginning and still run into difficult blades sometimes. Anyway, if you've only got one you're messing with I would suggest you look for more razors. IME Solingen full hollows tend to be easier than heavier grinds. One of the reasons so many old time barbers liked them so well. Also, if you are using the 4k as your bevel setter it will take longer to get there no matter who you are.

The most difficult part of learning on your own is not knowing when you are there. If there is any member in your neck of the woods with the skills and the willingness to share them with you that would be a great help. In the meanwhile the aforementioned videos and the SRP library can be a great resource. Eventually, if you keep at it, you will succeed and then go to the next. As Lynn noted, each one can be a challenge not matter how much experience you have. Some are easy as pie and others are a lot of work. Just stay with it and you'll get there.

What happened to the "Local Help" link

Anyway Rev, it might help you the most to go to your settings and put in a location, help might be closer then you think...

Lynn and I were just BS'n the other day on the phone about this exact topic, saying that the concept of pressure is probably the hardest thing to convey across the internet..

I also like the vid of Mark/Speedster and trust me it wasn't some thought out production, we came up with the idea about 20 minutes before we did the Vid but it is very realistic in that, it was the first time Mark had touched hones... Watching somebody that has 1000's of razors honed is great, for refining your technique, but sometimes watching somebody have the same issues as you are having might actually help more Reminds me of when I watch those carpenter vids and shows, and then try to build something myself, and not one damn corner is straight on mine, I want to take the hammer to the TV

It will come together, but I agree with Lynn, sometimes you just have to get up and walk away, I know I do...