Thread: Edge upgrade/Improvement

I recently honed a Joseph Feist Solingen and a W R Case COBALT MAGNETIC. They ended up in the 90 percentile for shave quality and I thought I could improve upon that by using the following progression of stones.

I did 15 laps on the King 6, 12 Laps on the Shapton 8, 8 laps on the Naniwa 12 and 15 laps on the Thuringian w/slurry. It should be noted that after 4 laps on the Naniwa 12, I added 1 layer of tape and continued doing the other 4 laps on the 12k. Then I did the 15 laps on the Thuri w/slurry with the added 1 layer of tape.

So I believe we can refer to the last 19 laps in this progression as having put a Tim Zowada twist on things.
At any rate, this method bumped up the edge to about the 98.8735482 percentile. I enjoyed this shave immensely.

There are many things that can be said for the double bevel. Some like it and some don't need it. Your choice. It seems to be especially good for stubborn blades that resist our efforts on the stones.

If you have any thoughts on the matter, fire at will......!

Has it ever worked for you?

Jerry
____

Jerry,

I have used your approach, particularly on problem razors that have weepingly hard steel and/or very 'chippy' edges. It works very well

I must admit I have not looked with optics to see how the secondary bevel holds up after the usual daily stropping and the weekly touch-ups on a CrOx pasted hard-leather paddle. I shall do so the next time I use this method

Have fun !

Best regards

Russ

Glen theory here ...

Why not add the 1 layer of tape from the begining and get a stronger, edge with the same level of sharpness ???? why is it stronger??? well in theory the entire edge is the slightly higher angle instead of just the very tiny amount that is sharpened with the "double bevel"

Using numbers: you honed a 16° degree bevel that is 1mm thick and then added a piece of tape and honed a 16.60° bevel that is ..25mm thick on the original bevel..
By using the tape from the beginning you would have had a .75mm bevel that is 16.60°.. So in theory the edge would be more uniform and last longer ergo "Stronger"..



(all bevel thickness numbers are just speculation, the bevel angles are mathimatics from previous measurements using 1 layer of 3M 700 electrical tape on a 6/8 width razor) This also assumes that the razor actually needed the .60° bevel angle change that the tape produced to give a better outcome, but that was a given is this instance..

A double-beveled edge can be stronger, perhaps, than a single-beveled edge, but mathematics and logic show that it cannot be as sharp. The difference may be minimal, and perhaps unnoticeable in shaving, but when the bevel angle is made less acute it cannot be as sharp as the original bevel.

Jerry,
in the knife world this is called a microvebel. It is used to make the edge last longer because there is a bit more metal behind it for support. I agree it is a tool to use on stubborn blades, such as super hard steels that tend to microchip, or some soft steels that tend to loose the edge fast. I have had razors that even 1 layer of tape is not enough but two was perfect, those are very rare though.

Originally Posted by ace

A double-beveled edge can be stronger, perhaps, than a single-beveled edge, but mathematics and logic show that it cannot be as sharp. The difference may be minimal, and perhaps unnoticeable in shaving, but when the bevel angle is made less acute it cannot be as sharp as the original bevel.

Just to clarify there is no single bevels discussed here only microbevels, single bevel is what a microtome has.

The method I described above worked particularly well this week on my new HARTSTEEL 7/8 square point. Why would I hone a brand new Hart? Because they accidentally sent this razor with no useabl edge. Not even a bevel set. Then they sent me a $20 credit for honing my own blade.

I actually enjoyed honing the O1 tool steel blade. The shave was clean, smooth and beyond satisfactory.

On some razors that are super hollow with very small bevels, the tape tricks and microbevels are redundant. IME

In cases where the bevels are large sized to average, tape defiitely can get you to your endpoint quicker, and really it is the edge that is shaving you not the bevel. As many here agree, proof is always in the shave and it sounds like you got a winner and repeatable method to take your edges to the next level. Nice razor!

I have nothing against that method and Jerry, glad you like it. FWIW, Tim Zowada posted here that what he was doing wasn't "really" a double bevel after all ...... and he isn't doing that anymore anyway ... he said he would elaborate but never did. To me, there are no hard and fast rules. When I came around the hone freaks were arguing about the pyramid versus progressive honing, whether an x stroke was as good as just moving straight across the hone. If anyone did circles they kept it to themselves.

There were no Shapton glass or naniwa superstones or choseras. J-nats were pretty much restricted to nakayama variations and Ardennes had just become known. Before that it was the bay or flea market and antique store for coticules and eschers were like hens teeth. All that became available, then Lynn introduced the circle technique at a meetup a few years back. You need a score card to figure out how many j-nat types there are and everybody has at least one of every hone known to man. We just keep progressing and I guess all that proves is the Internet is a wonderful thing. We owe a lot to Al Gore ......

Jimmy

How can you not love the guy; let me count the ways...

Just some FYI - I was taught to do x strokes on my 3 line Swaty back in '68 so the x stroke isn't anything new to me.

As far as the many different methods put forth on the forums, if you can't find a method that works, you are not trying.
I have had success with the pyramid, many different progressions and of course, the so-called double bevel.

And on top of that, it has all been quite alot of fun to get where I am at today. Expensive too!

Jerry
____