Thread: Honing Sketch

Originally Posted by unit

I am not sure I have ever said Chromium oxide in this thread....I could be wrong?

I have seen sources for strop compounds MUCH larger than CrOx. Many here talk of CBN, and even the popular StraightRazorDesigns site offers Diamond sprays up to 2 micron.

Regardless of how convex it is, convex is convex. That is all I am saying.

Additionally, YES it will take some time to get there (thus the term "aggressive stropping").

Mountain out of a mole hill? Perhaps, but the action of stropping on a loaded strop is working on the apex (otherwise why do we do it?) it is this apex that will see the greatest magnitude of convex (I suggest). What is the apex width, a micron or two? That 0.5 micron CrOx starts to seem a little bigger when we drop to this scale and contemplate.

Hey, perhaps I am totally full of beans? I am just thinking out loud (or in text). I sincerely appreciate the intelligent discussion. Again, I hope my tone is understood...I am here to learn

I remember discussing this topic with you when we talked about CBN and even linked to the same thread that Grazor is talking about. Seriously i think you would need to strop quite a lot to get a convex edge, to me it just seem impossible to acheived that kind of metal removal on a strop
even with Crox or CBN or diamond.

to go from a perfect V bevel to the convex bevel on a razor with a 1mm to 2mm seems almost impossible on a large knife with a big bevel sure!

Yes, it seems you could maintain an edge "almost" indefinitely with pasted strops, so i did some calculating and counted the razors i have already, and in theory, if i shave every day, i am good for the next 1,385,672 years, 9 months, two weeks, and seven days,,,,,roughly. I better get some more soap.

Some people suggest the strop doesn't even have to be pasted to get a long life out of an edge. As I have become more proficient at stropping over time I have certainly noticed my edges do last longer, though I do not think my skill level will ever get to the point where I could maintain an edge indefinitely off a strop. Besides that, it is too much fun to hone!

The technical bit to all of this is the definition: if an edge is not straight (flat) then by definition it must be convex (in the context of this discussion, though it would be interesting to see how much of a concave edge you could produce by starting with lots of tape and removing layers...). In a certain sense that is correct, but shaving and honing are practical skills and a more practical definition needs to be put in place IMO. There will be a level or levels of non-straight bevels below which the deviation from linearity is imperceptable - a radius of curvature so large as to be indistinguishable from infinity. It may require that radius of curvature to drop very substantially before there is any practical deviation from linearity, and that reduction may take a commensurate amount of pasted stropping.

James.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

I don't disagree that the theory is all there ready to go in terms of pasted strops and convex edges. In fact, it is surely certain that this will happen given a long enough time frame and regular enough stropping. I'm not sure what you mean by 'aggressive' stropping in this context - I think normal, frequent stropping over a long time-period would do it.

However, after Glen experimented and showed his results, I believe the time frame necessary for a convex edge to develop to a point where it significantly differs from a linear edge (and yes, there are, theoretically, ways to quantify linear and convex and whether you have deviated significantly from one or the other) would be greater than the time between rehonings, other things being equal.

And there is the real conclusion, the theory is sound and the science behind it is sound but in practice it became irrelevant, or your stropping needs practice

I did the same thing with this statement, because I got tired of reading it with no proof "If you tape the spine it will eventually mess up the geometry of the razor that was set by the manufacturer" this is another theory that is true but in practice after 31 full honing cycles on a 5/8 razor it changed the overall bevel angle less then 1/2 of 1 degree... So although the science is there it became irrelevant during your razor's lifetime

(BTW that razor is my test bed and was the same one used in the pasted strop experiment and has 34 full honing cycles now I will re-measure at 50)

Originally Posted by Jimbo

But it is certainly fun talking about it.

For me that's mostly the point of these discussions.

Though, understanding what's happening - even if it is too small to be useful in a practical sense - may some day prove to be useful in some fashion.

Originally Posted by Grazor

Yes, it seems you could maintain an edge "almost" indefinitely with pasted strops, so i did some calculating and counted the razors i have already, and in theory, if i shave every day, i am good for the next 1,385,672 years, 9 months, two weeks, and seven days,,,,,roughly. I better get some more soap.

Favorite Quote: "The difference between theory and practice is that in theory you don't need practice, but in practice you do."

You should live so long!