Thread: What am I doing wrong?

Everybody gets into straight shaving for different reasons. If your main goal is to learn how to shave with a straight then you should probably take a different path than the one that you are currently on. Your number one goals should be to get a razor that has been properly honed and then maintain that razor's edge. That is no small feat! Learning how to strop a razor properly and touching up the edge when it starts to lose performance should be first on the agenda. It would take some of the honing pressure off you and allow you time to figure out your plan of attack when it comes to honing.

Touching up the edge can be accomplished a couple of different ways. When I first started I was told to get an 8K diamond plate and use diamond paste on a paddle strop and that served me well for my first year. I bought a good but not expensive second razor off the BST and proceeded to learn how to hone it up. The way that I hone now looks absolutely nothing like when I first started....but that is a different ugly tale.

Another approach, and there are many others, is to use a barbers hone and pastes on felt ,or some other substrate. Whatever approach you take just make it simple at first and just enjoy learning to use a straight. This approach will also keep your costs down. Straights can suck you bank account dry without proper planning.

Sweenie

I agree with the advice you have received, send it out to be professionally honed, if nothing else so you have something to compare to. Or if you want to learn to hone, buy another razor and have it honed, some vendors really do sell shave ready razors.

The Lynn Mellyn is a nice stone and can be a nice finish hone and AJ usually laps one side of his stones. Look to see if one side is beveled on the edges, that is the lapped side.

Put one layer of tape on the spine, take a sharpie and ink the bevel, wet the Lynn Mellyn and do one stroke on each side. Look at the bevel under magnification. Is the L/M removing ink all the way to the edge? Is the edge straight, are there any chips in the edge?

Now look at the edge under magnification, with edge facing straight up at you, Start at the heel and slide up to the toe. Can you see light reflected back at you?

If you see that ink is not removed all the way to the edge you will need to re hone on the courser stone, 1,500K to set the bevel. “Setting the Bevel” really means developing a flat bevel all the way to the edge and sharpening the edge to the point it will cut hair. When
1. The bevel is flat from heel to toe,
2. goes all the way to the edge,
3. No chips are present and
4. The edge is straight and most important,
5. No light reflects back at you… the two planes of the bevel meet and the edge is sharp.

One of the biggest mistakes most new honers make is not looking at the edge, straight on to see if the edge is sharp. Any light reflecting back at you means the edge is not sharp., the two planes of the bevel are not meeting. You should be able to see light with the naked eye, magnification will make it much easier. Your edge must be sharp at 1K or whatever you are using to bevel set before going to the next stone.

What is the brand of your 1500/4000 stone? A quality synthetic water stone will make your honing much easier and successful. As mentioned it will need to be flattened/lapped so you will need a lapping plate preferably a DMT diamond plate. New water hones are not flat.

Honing is not that hard, but it is not as easy as slapping a razor on any rock. More importantly honing is more about knowing what to look for or do when things don’t go as easily as people describe.

Look at more videos, GSixgun, Lynn and others have tons of great video that will teach you tons and point you in the right direction.

In the end you will only learn by doing, but good instruction does make it easier.

Marty

Originally Posted by mainaman

i think that you need to learn synthetic stones before you jump on naturals.
You need 1k 4/8k stones , learn how to use them to perfection , then add natural polishers if you feel the need.

+1Excellent advice! I have been honing for about two years now and I found that learning on the ceramics like the super stones is an easy way to learn. After you simi-master these you can move on to the BBWs and coniculs and eschers and such. the 1k,4k,8k stones are a basic requirement to start with. the 12 isn't even usable without the work on the other stones first. on youtube look at the gssixgun or lynn abrams videos and you will learn enough to get you started in the right direction. You will learn from the masters and if you follow well it will make things much easier. BTW I am learning the naturals now and this isn't for the novice...it takes time.
Stingray

Amazon.com: 37-948 3M Micron Polishing Papers 8 1/2x11" Asst (6): Toys & Games

If you want to experiment this is an inexpensive way to do so.

Originally Posted by gcbryan

Amazon.com: 37-948 3M Micron Polishing Papers 8 1/2x11" Asst (6): Toys & Games

If you want to experiment this is an inexpensive way to do so.

Yeah those are not for honing they are for sanding.. You want Lapping Film those are cloth, the key word being flim...

Use the search feature with the terms "Honing, Lapping Film" there are plenty of threads to learn from

The ebay description for that "LLYN MELYNLLYN" only says that he "estimates" that its a 12K. Maybe it is, but I've seen more of them in 8K. You need to get a seriously qualified second opinion to confirm exactly what grit that stone is.

Now I know some here like Honemeister Lynn can strop & shave off their own 8K, but I doubt I could do as well with just an 8K.

It also occurs to me that you might want to use a flattening stone. I have Norton SiC to flatten my Norton stones with, but most here prefer a DMT 325.

Originally Posted by RARamirez

If you really want to hone. I would send out the dovo and buy a cheap razor at like a antique shop or whipped dog (unhoned) etc and practice on that. That way u know what a shave ready razor feels like and you can practice on the cheap one to get it to shave readiness IMO

+1 to that

Originally Posted by sweenie

I brought a Dovo razor (new) a while ago and still haven't been able to hone it. I thought I'd got there today, but when I tried shaving it was very blunt.

Initially I ordered a hone from Amazon that was 1500/4000 and used it but then I found out online that 4000 grit isn't enough. So, I brought a 12k stone from eBay. I have spent over an hour this last few days honing the blade with this stone just as the various videos on eBay demonstrate - bit of tape, holding it flat, pushing in the direction of the blade, rather than away from, not too much pressure etc etc.

But it just isn't working.

Could it be that my early attempts at honing (when I didn't know what angle to use) messed up the blade?

Or could it be that my hone is actually not 12k?

Or does it just take a really long time?

All advice and thoughts welcome. Thanks in advance

First welcome.... there is a lot to learn getting a good shave is a lot of small things done correctly.

Regarding grit.... the work horse hone for straight razors has been the Norton 4K/8K combo hone
combined with a DMT or some other tool to keep the surface flat. Someplace in the range of
8K to 15K folk seem to find a good shave.

Next angle... the razor sets the angle. The spine lays on the hone at the same time that
the edge does. The connection is always spine then a gentle roll so the edge lays flat
on the hone. Lifting the spine off the hone will almost always dull the edge. There are factory
professionals that do it but mortals not.

The least expensive starting point is an abrasive film with contact adhesive.
Woodcraft sells a tripple film set 15micron, 5 micron, 0.3 micron film.
The 15 micron is close to a 1K grit, the 5 is close to 6k and the 0.3
is close to 15K. Film seems to cut steel faster than the same grit in
a hone so these large jumps work. Fix them to something flat as heck,
glass or a flat granite tile works and lap away. Look for:
Pinnacle Honing Film 14", Assorted, 3 pack (Woodworking Plans & Tools | Fine Woodworking Project & Supplies at Woodcraft)
For the price it is a fair place to start.

The least error prone strategy is to send the razor out to a honing service. If nothing
else you will get to shave with a correctly honed razor.

Strop and stropping. You need to strop the razor each time you shave with the exception of the first
shave from a professional honemaster. Tell us about your strop and experience with
a strop. The hone will make an edge "strop ready". A strop will not sharpen a dull
edge.

Lather and face prep (latherin) is important. If you are not a blade shaver it is inexpensive to
shave with a tossable like the BiC Yellow handled razor for sensitive skin. They are not "fine"
razors but they are consistent and will condition your face and expectations. With a good
shave prep you will get good enough to go-to-work shaves. They are valuable in the week/two weeks
that a razor is in transit to and from a honemaster. Double edge blades are all over the map from
dull to smooth to OMG... and have more risk and cost than the BiC tossables. If you fly today the
tossable is important.

Summary:
Best bet: send it to a professional.
Second best: Woodcraft film 15/5/0.3micron film
Third best: experiment

What I did -- experiment, experiment and experiment, bought a box of expensive hones...
and shaved with a trusty tossable for the dull result days.