Thread: Honing a Giesen & Forsthoff Timor Special

I started a thread (First shave with a razor I honed) in the "Hones" forum but realized that location is more about the hones, not so much about how to use them so I thought I'd start a new one here.

To briefly recap the other thread, I've got 3 shave ready razors and bought the Timor basically to practice honing on. After a pretty good number of laps on a 1k I had a pretty decent bevel. I did a magic marker test and within 4 laps all the marker on the edge was gone so I thought I had a reasonably straight bevel. I then did pyramids on a 4k/8k and some finishing laps on a 12k. The edge didn't seem particularly sharp but I tried a shave with it anyway and confirmed that it wasn't sharp enough.

Last night I essentially started over. I did a lot of laps on the 1k and got a good bevel. I inspected it with a loupe and microscope and it looks good, even as compared to my professionally honed razors. I then did a lot of laps on the 4k/8k and the result will cut the hair on my arm reasonably easily in one direction. With the marking on the blade up and cutting against the grain it's not as sharp as with the razor flipped over. Visually, the line of the bevel is wider on the marked versus non-marked side of the blade so I assume this means that the bevel is not centered on the blade, sort of like a ^ with the point left of center. Correct?

If so, what would be the best way to fix that? Work on the "narrow" edge only until it's the same approximate width as the wider edge? I assume that the way to check this as I work is the one side will get a little wider and the other a little narrower as the edge becomes centered. Also correct?

Thanks for any help.

Oh, and I know the Timor isn't a great blade but if nothing else I'm developing my honing stroke by doing lots of laps! Given my experience with the razor so far and the fact that I got it sharp shaving in one direction it does seem like it should be possible to get it shave ready. The edge might not last all that long once I get there but it at least seems possible.

It could be blade geometry, but it could also be that you're unwittingly using more pressure on one stroke than the other. I found that I tend to put more pressure on the 'away' stroke than the 'towards' unless I concentrate. If you're using tape on the spine, when you peel it off, straighten it out and compare the wear from each side of the spine. That will show if you're heavier on one side than the other (and if you're heel- or toe-heavy).

I also have a Timor Special that I honed from scratch. I basically took the blade straight from the factoy, downstroked (dulled) it on glass, then set the bevel on a Naniwa 1k.

Long story short, it took me FOREVER to set the bevel on the Nani, so I broke out thr King 1k, which has a more "abrasive" feel to it. After 6-7 sets of circles, I was finally able to get the Timor to shave arm hair. I really had to use a lot of pressure though; it was not nearly as easy as some of the other 6/8" blades I've honed.

The only thing I could equate it to was the "fatness" of the blade. The Timor's blade really is beafy, which IME made it harder to set the bevel. Anyway, once I got the bevel set, I did the rest on my La Dressante Coticule. I was able to get a shavable edge, but it wasn't as good as some of my other blades.

If you do a search you will see the Timor has been discussed many times. The consensus is the older ones were quality razors however the newer ones are a big notch down in quality.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

If you do a search you will see the Timor has been discussed many times. The consensus is the older ones were quality razors however the newer ones are a big notch down in quality.

Yep, did the search hence my comment at the end of my first post.

I've honed about 20 G&F's recently and have found that they are a pig to set the bevel on, however, once set they take a good edge and are a nice shaver.

To get the bevel even on both sides, I use a combination of circles with pressure then 'Japanese' honing with pressure on the weak side to even the bevel up (I've had to change tape three times on some of them), then the normal X stroke, diluting the slurry as I go, until it passes the TNT. A few laps to repair any damage the TNT does and it passes the Arm Hair Test easily.

Once the bevel is set, it's up through the progression to 13K and they are good to go.

I think they are a good razor - they just take lots more work to get a shaving edge as the factory one leaves a lot to be desired.

Of course YMMV.

Thanks Havachat45! I was beginning to think I should have titled my thread "Honing a Thiers Issard Grelot" in order to get answers to my questions which had everything to do with honing and nothing to do with the specific razor. It seems folks are more interested in dumping on the razor than answering questions about honing.

In absence of any answers to my questions, I went ahead and did what I described in my original post: worked on the weak side of the blade to even the bevel up (as you subsequently suggested) then normal X stroke pyramids through 4k/8k/12k followed by a bunch of stropping. The result: a shave ready razor that pops hair as well as my other professionally honed razors (two Dovo's and a Thiers Issard).

In order to make this useful thread for future readers who might do a search for Giesen & Forsthoff or Timor Special I'll say that it's fairly crappy coming from the factory. It takes a lot of work to get a good bevel set but once you do it takes an edge pretty well. I can't say yet how long it'll hold the edge, my guess is that it won't compare with more expensive razors, but it certainly is a good practice razor and with sufficient work will end up being a usable part of your rotation. It helped me develop my honing stroke, learn some things about how an edge develops and how to fix one that's gone wrong which is exactly the reason I bought such a "crappy" razor.

Originally Posted by Weaselsrippedmyflesh

Thanks Havachat45! I was beginning to think I should have titled my thread "Honing a Thiers Issard Grelot" in order to get answers to my questions which had everything to do with honing and nothing to do with the specific razor. It seems folks are more interested in dumping on the razor than answering questions about honing.

In absence of any answers to my questions, I went ahead and did what I described in my original post: worked on the weak side of the blade to even the bevel up (as you subsequently suggested) then normal X stroke pyramids through 4k/8k/12k followed by a bunch of stropping. The result: a shave ready razor that pops hair as well as my other professionally honed razors (two Dovo's and a Thiers Issard).

In order to make this useful thread for future readers who might do a search for Giesen & Forsthoff or Timor Special I'll say that it's fairly crappy coming from the factory. It takes a lot of work to get a good bevel set but once you do it takes an edge pretty well. I can't say yet how long it'll hold the edge, my guess is that it won't compare with more expensive razors, but it certainly is a good practice razor and with sufficient work will end up being a usable part of your rotation. It helped me develop my honing stroke, learn some things about how an edge develops and how to fix one that's gone wrong which is exactly the reason I bought such a "crappy" razor.

Before you blame the razor OR the job you did honing it, check something out. I find that the edge on my blades often seems to get slightly adjusted with the last stroke on the hone or strop. As such, it cuts that standing hair more efficiently in one direction than the other. But if I give it a 1/2 lap in the opposite direction from the last stroke I made prior, it pushes it in the other direction and I find it cuts just as efficiently as the other direction. Try that before you make any radical honing adjustments that may leave your edge in worse shape.

The way that the bevel looks is simply cosmetic. There is no reason that the bevel needs to be even on both sides or even from heel to toe. So long as the bevel is set, nothing else matters. There is no "problem" and there is nothing to "fix" if your bevel is uneven when properly set. IMO, you are "wasting" steel or removing "excessive" amounts of steel if you try to get the bevel even.

BTW, when I first started to try my hand at honing, I picked up some real rough blades from eBay to work on. Some of them were in real rough shape. LOL. The good thing with learning on challenging blades is that it's like swinging two bats before you approach the plate. I ran into blades that were warped, were so badly corroded at the edge that they needed to be bread knifed to find some useful steel, or had smiling blades. But the practice is really helpful when you finally move on to a quality blade that doesn't have any of those problems.