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Thread: Looking for a critique

  1. #1
    Nautical Madman SailorJ's Avatar
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    Default Looking for a critique

    Trying to learn how to hone. Have a duo sharp dmt 325 I use to lap this 4k/8k norton. Used slurry to set the bevel seemed to go ok, but even after using circles, x strokes and pyramids its still only sharp enough for arm hair with a small amount of convincing. I took this video don't know how much you can tell from it, but if there are any glaring mistakes in my technique I would be grateful for advice. Cheers! http://youtu.be/XWnDuLTqKlc
    "One must always choose the lesser of two weevils." - Cpt. Jack Aubrey

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    Senior Member str8fencer's Avatar
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    I see no obvious problems there, but I wonder if you are absolutely sure the blade is flat on the stone? Also, how much pressure are you using? Remember the thinner the blade, the less pressure you must use, or the edge will flex off the hone.
    Apart from that, perhaps you have not set the bevel properly yet? Look under a microscope, they are cheap and will often reveal problems when you can't get the sharpness you are anticipating. At least I have had lots of help from mine.

    Best of luck.
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    Senior Member aespo's Avatar
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    If I might add....it is a 4K stone you are working on correct? If so you just may need to do more laps than what you showed. If the bevel was not set on a lower grit then I dont know if that was enough on the 4K to set it from the beginning.

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    Nautical Madman SailorJ's Avatar
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    Default Looking for a critique

    I attempted to set the bevel using a slurry that I stirred up on the 4k with the dmt. And I have done hours with of laps more than what I just put in the video just didn't want it to drag on.

    As to the pressure, I try to just balance the blade when doing anything other than setting the bevel. I have been trying to make it rest on the stone as lightly as possible whilst maintaining even watershed in front of the razor.

    I will also see about a microscope, or maybe a jeweler's loop, would that work?
    "One must always choose the lesser of two weevils." - Cpt. Jack Aubrey

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    At this point in time... gssixgun's Avatar
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    You technique looks very good I do believe that is what you were asking about..

    Couple of hints though for the future..

    One of the things that Lynn and I found going all the way back to the NC meets in 2008 was that when teaching people to hone while sitting across the table from them was watching their elbow.. That elbow has to stay in a level plane with the hone, as that is what keeps the razor and hone inline.. We can't see your elbow in the vid..
    If you watch the vid of me and Mark/Speedster you will hear me mention it.. Keeping that stroke and therefore the razor even and level is all in that elbow..

    On a couple of the X strokes it "looked" like they were short, like you were only doing 3/4 of the edge, that very well could be from the camera, but at least double check that scratch pattern down by the heel to make sure you are getting even contact.. A MM test would not hurt, but often when you color up the edge you tend to make a special effort to do the strokes correctly it is human nature to not want to make mistakes..


    It really does look good though, do not over-correct from my half baked analysis by way of a vid that I can't see detail in

    Edit: A well lit LED Loupe available on Amazon for about $8 shipped is what I use for everyday honing

    http://www.amazon.com/25mm-Glass-Jew...ewerlers+lopue
    Last edited by gssixgun; 01-17-2013 at 04:48 PM.

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    Nautical Madman SailorJ's Avatar
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    Default Looking for a critique

    Awesome thank you! I'll keep an eye on the elbow and strokes.
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    "One must always choose the lesser of two weevils." - Cpt. Jack Aubrey

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    Senior Member Double0757's Avatar
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    Default Looking for a critique

    The movements are good, but the even pressure can only be seen by the marker test.

    I take a sharpie and paint the edge, then do one x stroke in one direction and examine, then the other direction. If I'm missing a spot I try to hit it on the next stroke and shift my pressure on the blade to accomplished that. Also look at the water displacement as you stroke the blade on the stone, should be even across the entire edge. If this doesn't happen, shift pressure until it does. Keep at it, with circles and x strokes, and you'll see the fruits of your labor when you do a TNT (thumb nail test) and the resistance of the edge on the nail is even and smooth on the entire length of the edge. If there is an uneven resistance or a rough area on the edge, go back to the 4k with slury to set the bevel, and work on the area that is lacking. I have a 1k Chossera which is faster than the 4k with slury, but the process is the same. Strokes, check, strokes, check, test, back to the stone, until you get an even bevel. Once that happen, I check for how easy and evenly across the edge I can cut leg hairs on the root. All across the edge it should cut with little pressure (at least for me). I go back to the Chossera 1k with very lite pressure on the edge and do some X strokes, until I achieve this. Long process but worth spending time setting a good bevel all across the edge. Good luck!

    I also use the sharpie and water displacement, for the next lite strokes you're going to use on the 4k and 8k. After the bevel setting, the other test I use are TPT (thumb pat test), see library for definition, the leg hair test and a loop (30x). The hair test should improve after each stone, with the last one been the 8k and it should cut hair along the edge, at the root of the hair, with hardly no pressure for me. The TPT should feel sharper and "grabbier" after each stone and the edge should have an even scratch mark all along the edge, before you move to the next stone.

    That's how I'm learning! Double O

    P.S. the hair test can be substituted with arm hair test or even head hair, if you have head hair that can be cut with shave ready razor (I don't). What ever you use, stick with it and learn to read the changes on the edge.

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    ace
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    My honing improved mightily when I got my elbow up in the air. It made everything come together.

    The only critique I would have is that your x-strokes are so slow and careful that they make your circle strokes appear herky-jerky. If you look carefully at your circle strokes, you will see that they are very small and quickly done. I like to make mine as slowly and carefully as I can. I fight the natural tendency to speed up. There are many things that can be done quickly but done much better slowly. Honing is one of them. So is stropping. I can think of others as well, but they probably shouldn't be mentioned here.
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    Senior Member Proinsias's Avatar
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    I would think you want to concentrate on the 4k until you got it shaving arm hair with ease. Personally I would just stick with x-strokes and the 4K - one stroke & one stone. Try to really get the best out of the 4k with a light, smooth & even stroke, once the 4K with a bit of stropping can provide a socially acceptable, if not the smoothest shave in the world, then add a little polish with the 8K.

    I found pyramids really helpful for getting an idea of when to move onto the next stone, and circles I'm finding useful from bevel setting right up to final finish. As others have noted the video you took shows no glaring errors, I do think your x-stroke could be a little more fluid and the solution to that is little more than mindful technique and repetition. It sounds like you have a somewhat decent bevel - I would abandon use of slurry, circles and pressure and work with x-strokes on water with the 4K until that bevel is really singing.

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    An observation and a related question from a newbie honer:

    On the x-strokes, when you're pushing the blade away from you, it is pretty much straight across the hone, and when you're pulling it towards you, it is noticeably heel-forward.

    To the experienced honers: Does this matter? (I try to keep the angle the same in both directions, but I don't know if it makes any difference.)

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