Thread: Waterstone stone progression

As long as you do the shave test after the 10k to check your honing for smoothness not just for sharpness. You can go to any finer grit paste or compound to adjust the feel and sharpness of the razor. Even just going to the unpasted strop would improve the feel. But I would not use the Veritas honing compound due to this thread Consumer Alert: Chromium oxide bars, or not? other crox suppliers can be found, including SRD, and whippeddog.com.

Jonathan

I'd be curious to hear more about the 1-6k step. When I'm using my Naniwa stones, I go from the Chosera 1k to the SS 5k. I believe that the King 1k, like the Naniwa, is rather gentle with the scratch patterns. But I also know that the Naniwa SS 5k is on the fast side, and I'm not sure about the King.

Sometimes, if I want to ensure my "hit ratio," I'll use a light coticule slurry on my Norton 4k and 8k (also coming off the Chosera 1k). Perhaps something similar would work, if necessary, on the King 6k.

I can't really comment much on the speed of the 6k as it's the only synthetic I've got in that range and if I'm using it it's always with the jump from the 1K. Contrary to what Edward mentioned I finish on the 1k with a very light touch and water only. Not to say that a little pressure and a little slurry doesn't work, it's been a long time since I came off the 1k still using slurry, will have to give it a shot again.

I've tried coticule slurry on the 1K & 6K and didn't find it particularly useful. I prefer to use a Chinese 12k slurry stone or a dmt to draw slurry from the base stone, or sometimes a synthetic nagura, I think rated 8K. The King is soft enough that any vaguely hard coticule doesn't seem to release much of it's own slurry. If I'm using coticule slurry, I'm using a coticule. Most of the time I just leave out the 6K and go 1K>coticule and then maybe something else.

I can see that it would be a better idea to have a closer progression; but for now I think it's better to use what I have. Similarly with the Veritas green. I do remember reading all that stuff about health warnings, doing and good deal of research and concluding that it's nothing to be concerned about, unless you eat the stuff.

This razor honing business is still very peculiar to me - especially the idea of "over-honing". I assume that that is the reason for the pyramid method, rather than a simple progression between increasingly finer grits. In woodworking, a burr is your friend. In razor honing, the idea seems to be to occasionally use the finer stone to "smooth" your progress with the courser stones to avoid forming such a burr. This does at least accord with my experience with WW tools: that the burr should simply "float off" with gentle encouragement from a very fine abrasive - if you tear it off, the edge will be sub-standard. I suppose the real difference lies in the fact that razors have a much narrower bevel.

Following the advice of forum members, I'll be learning honing and shaving separately. I've elected to purchase a shave-ready sight-unseen razor from whippeddog.com, and will use that as a reference for sharpening my existing fleabay razor.

Personally I found the pyramid method useful for getting to know when it's time to move up grits but once I got a good idea of when I'm done on one grit and it was time to move on I ditched it - I still use it from time to time if I'm having issues. A simple progression through the grit levels should be able to provide a good working edge.

Originally Posted by Proinsias

Personally I found the pyramid method useful for getting to know when it's time to move up grits but once I got a good idea of when I'm done on one grit and it was time to move on I ditched it - I still use it from time to time if I'm having issues. A simple progression through the grit levels should be able to provide a good working edge.

I find the pyramid method to do just the opposite in that it makes it less clear when to move up from one grit to the next. You switch back and forth between the two stones until your progression is complete and suddenly you have a nice sharp edge. But it makes it impossible to tell when to move up from 4k to 8k (if you're using Norton). I suppose it will give you an idea of what to look for before you move up to a 10k or 12k. But I find that it makes the decision more difficult. But then again, I've not been a particular fan of the 4K Norton since I've owned it. It seems that the difference between it and my Naniwai 12K is minimal at best. It seems overly porous and aggressive. Its been lapped quite well but it seems to strip off more metal than the Nan 1K.

This has led me to more reading about the meaning of the "pyramid method".

I must admit, it doesn't make any sense to me. Why scratch up an 8000 grit stone with a 4000 grit stone?

As far as the progression goes, if I struggle with the 1000-6000 grit stones, I will introduce another similar, soft clay binder waterstone, probably one of the Suehiro Traditional line: Suehiro traditional series. : Tools from Japan, Japanese woodworking tools direct from Japan.. Probably the 3000 grit stone.

Oh and as to the Veritas green, I'm following the advice kindly provided by Datsots (above) and will be using unadulterated chromium oxide pigment, as I've found a very cheap source of supply (Larry from whippeddog.com, again).

I'm working on making a few more kangaroo hide paddle strops. The leather is about $10 each for a decent size of vegetable-tanned leather of acceptable quality. The paddles I've used for woodworking are smeared with all sorts of unmentionables, and I would not want to attack a razor with them.

As I understand it, the only problem with the 1000-6000 grit progression is that the higher grit stone may fail to remove the scratches from the lower grit stone. Might there be any other consequences relating to this mysterious over-honing business I've been learning about?

EDIT: Oh and I'll be using at LEAST my #400 grit stone to set a bevel on my favourite new razor:

Originally Posted by EdwardRoland

This has led me to more reading about the meaning of the "pyramid method".

I must admit, it doesn't make any sense to me. Why scratch up an 8000 grit stone with a 4000 grit stone?

As far as the progression goes, if I struggle with the 1000-6000 grit stones, I will introduce another similar, soft clay binder waterstone, probably one of the Suehiro Traditional line: [IMG]Suehiro traditional series. : Tools from Japan, Japanese woodworking tools direct from Japan.. [/IMG]Probably the 3000 grit stone.

Oh and as to the Veritas green, I'm following the advice kindly provided by Datsots (above) and will be using unadulterated chromium oxide pigment, as I've found a very cheap source of supply (Larry from whippeddog.com, again).

I'm working on making a few more kangaroo hide paddle strops. The leather is about $10 each for a decent size of vegetable-tanned leather of acceptable quality. The paddles I've used for woodworking are smeared with all sorts of unmentionables, and I would not want to attack a razor with them.

As I understand it, the only problem with the 1000-6000 grit progression is that the higher grit stone may fail to remove the scratches from the lower grit stone. Might there be any other consequences relating to this mysterious over-honing business I've been learning about?

EDIT: Oh and I'll be using at LEAST my #400 grit stone to set a bevel on my favourite new razor:

Let me know when you are done with that....
It will be perfect for saving right to the edge of my mustache....

The 6k is able to remove the scratches of a lower grit hone. It will just take a bit longer than a smaller jump.

Say 1k > 3k > 6k > 12k would take sixty min, a 1k > 6k > 12k would take about ninety min. Those are fictional times but just an example. The smaller the jump the faster that next hone will remove the last set of scratches. If you use dmt or other diamond hone raised slurry the hone will work faster leaving a relatively deep scratch pattern. I deal with these deeper scratches with about 10 clear water passes with no extra pressure.

There are lots of paths to shave ready. Have fun exploring.

Jonathan

I am in the same situation I have a chosera 1k bevel setter on the way and a c12k as a polisher/finisher. I only have 1 strop the canvas is chalked and leather is just plain no paste one stone honing is possible a technique worth mastering...my thought back in the day and I mean 1700-1800's I don't think everybody had many stones or strops to maintain their shavers.
I wish you all the luck in learning the technique and see if you really need more.
Take care.