Thread: Beginner honing on 4k/8k - questions

OK, this is my first razor honing and, actually my first sharpening experience all together and I have a few questions. I have read all the forums and all the help files and watched all the help videos (which by the way I found confusing - some X, some don't, some do round trips, some work the same side 3-4 times). I usually approach fine motor hand skills with a great deal of confidence, and this one is proving a challenge. I do not have the experience to assess the thumb test and my razor does not pass the HHT though it can take down arm hairs with a tiny bit of tugging. When shaving it is not a brutal experience, but when going at decent beard I get some tugging. In comparing with a DE shave I am getting alot more tugging from the str8. I have been trying to learn the knack for testing off the DE blades. I do notice that my DE blades will not pass the HHT either, and feel very similar in the thumb pad test. I am following the terrific advice found here and I by no means giving up. My razor is a Hess #1 and the blade is in slightly less than factory new condition in my assessment (and based on the info of the person that I got it from). I have done the aggressive pyramid, followed by the non-aggressive, then shaved, then done the non-aggressive, then shaved, non-aggressive - and I plan to continue doing this as I seem to be getting some improvement. I have lapped the stone. I am X ing.

I have a few questions:
1) do people tend to approach the hone on the short side and therefore pushing and pulling, or approach on the long side and therefore more hone laterally, in a side to side fashion. I have been doing push-pull as this seems easier to keep the spine and cutting edge in contact. I place the finger and thumb of the left hand on the spine, at the tip to keep contact. I try my utmost not to apply pressure, but think I may be applying to much pressure.

2) pressure - can this by learned over the internet or from a book? I try to apply only enough to maintain contact, but think I am applying to much - any tips for evaluating if I am applying to much pressure?

3) after soaking the stone, how much water? On the 4k side I think I should be able to see the blade pushing water and have been doing this. On the 8K, I have been working with damp, but no puddles. Does this really matter? Should I err on the side of too much or too little?

Thanks for any tips

Bill

3) As you approach the final stages of honing, proper hydration becomes increasingly important. That's when you have to make sure there's plenty of water in the blue dish, so each surface is fully moisturized when you hone (I place it in a shallow rectangular tray so I don't mess up the work area).
2) The final honing strokes are almost not touching. There's supposed to be a bit of suction b/w the blade and the stone and I pull away from it, without actually lifting the blade.

You should lap the stone, try a couple of very gentle 1-5s and re-test.

Its kind of a challenge huh? I would recommend a microscope. Its possible your going past perfection a few times.

After you try Firestarts idea (and see if it works) I would finish on 8K about 20 laps. Test again. If that doesn't work I'd back hone on 8k and try 8K about 10 laps and test again.

I think your honing might be fine, its the balance between 4k and 8k thats off.

We could spend a month talking about perfect technique on the hone. For now just do whats comfortable and allows you to keep the razor flat in both directions.

OK! Good for you, you're in the thick of it. Here are my thoughts on your questions:

1) I hone laterally left to right and vice versa with one hand only. It takes just a little while to get used to, but is most direct in the longer term. To keep the pressure (or more precisely torque) the same in both directions, I make sur my thumb is place on the edge side of the shank on top of the blade and my forefinger contacts the spine side from underneath. This makes for a slightly different grip in either direction. I also don't X, but lead with the heel instead. The edge of the hone always stymies my attempts to create an edge. I do end up taking just the heel off the hone though so it's a little like an X motion.

2) You can start out with a little pressure (say 1kg of downward force) but gradually ease that off as you come down the Pyramid. Be careful not to go so light that the blade has irregular contact with the hone. Eveness is more important. Another thing you can think about to try and hone the entire edge evenly is to gently and subtlely Roll the blades primary contact with the hon from heel to tip gradually throughout the honing stroke. Nothing overt. Delicately.

3) I emerse my stone for about 15 minutes before honing and keep it well hydrated throughout. I believe the tensile strength of the water molecules actually helps keep the blade stuck down to the stone. I don't know if that's why, but lots of water seems to work better than just a little.

X

Thanks for input - I will use more water and spend more time on the 8K - and then report back.

Bill

Don't forget less pressure in the final stages.

Yes this is tough. did a 1-5 then strop and shave, then a 1-8 then strop and shave, then about 10 laps on the 8k then strop and shave. I am not noticing any comfort improvements at this point, though I know there is room for improvement and the razor does not cut a hanging hair passed into the blade. I have had straight shave before - 8 years ago in Turkey - and I recall it being very comfortable, no pulling, just cutting type of experience (though the barber then cinged the peach fuzz off my ear lobes ... how about a forum on hair cinging :-)

I like the feel of more water on the stone. I am trying to go as light as possible and have switched to side-to-side rather than out and back. I have tried the one hand only approach with my practice razor and find this quite difficult. Interesting that my practice razor passess the HHT, but pulls like crazy on the shave (it came to me free and quite tarnished, can't even read the branding, blade is less than 1/2", and really smiles at me and I think it is over honed).

I am using electrical tape on the spine (not with the practice razor) as per other posts.

I am not disappointed as I expect this to take some time. Plan is to continue with 1-5, 1-8, 1-10 approach and use less and less pressure if possible. Any tips on using less pressure? Any of those Uh-Huh moments when you just tried this or that and shazam it improved?

With the hair test, do you go straight from the stone to the test, or dry the razor, strop it then test?

Bill

What did the barber use to singe the ear hair? I have some interest in that technique.

There is the possibility of you overhoning the blade. Try back-honing 5 strokes or so and doing the full pyramid but with very gentle strokes.
Lapping is what caused most of my sha-zam and ta-dah moments.
Definitely no stropping for hair tests.

What did he use ... mostly very fast hands. He had q-tip, dipped it in a liquid, lit it with a lighter, then quickly touched the flame to the peach fuzz and very quickly and gently used the other bare hand to wisk the area - it was something else.

Then he gave me a temple rub that had my eyes popping - that was a bit much for me.

Bill

Bill, do you know what the liquid was? That's the real kicker? If you can't identify it per se do you remember if it was clear or colored and the consistency?