Thread: I got my razor and Coticule back

I got my razor back from mjsorkin and shaved with it today. We did a little experiment with my Coticule because I wasn't satisfied with the edges I was getting. I sent him the razor and the Coticule and he honed it for me. I have to say the edge was very mellow and it gave me a good shave. I thought it would because it passed my HHT, "my" Coticule edges did not. I can see why people like the mellow Coticule edges so much and I felt very "safe" while I was shaving . While I was shaving my chin, the razor skipped and hit my chin (my fault not the edge's fault). I was expecting to see blood but to my surprise...nothing, not even a mark. If I was using a Naniwa edge I think I would've cut myself.

This is what I think about Coticule vs Naniwa edges. Naniwa edges are just sharper (but smooth) and because of that they give me closer shaves but you got to be a lot more careful. The Coticule edge is a joy to use. The mellow edge isn't scary and it feels better than the Naniwa edge but the shave isn't as close. I guess that's the trade off.

I got 2 questions for you hard-core Coticule users. Are "half-strokes" very important while using a Coticule? How many use paste after using your Coticule?

Thanks mjsorkin for giving me a goal to try to reach.

Thanks!

I'm very happy with how this experiment turned out. For me it was a nice opportunity and I'm glad that you have something to shoot for, and hopefully surpass at some point.

I've been inspired by this myself and for the last two days I've been shaving with a coticle honed razor. With great results I might add.

For Coti honing I think the most important thing is to hone with the stages of sharpening in mind. Start with a good bevel. Then hone varying slurry and pressure to achieve sharpening, polishing, then finally light finishing strokes. I got a lot from watching Lynn's coticule video and adapting my technique.

I like half strokes for the 2" or less wide stones. If I had a 2.5 or three inch stone I would use circles. I have also used circles on my 1.6 inch and 2 inch stones but I just find it a bit awkward. Either way works and preference has something to do with it.

I use Diamond on felt after almost everything, and sometimes cro-ox on rough leather. It's not a "purist" approach but I like it. After the diamond I just do a light stropping on SRD-1 paddle. My edges seem to smooth a bit after the first couple of shaves with good stropping on the hanging linen and leather.

Thanks again Rudy for the experiment. It was a unique opportunity and a fun time.



Michael

I don't use pastes anymore unless it my razor is not shaving well and I don't have time to take it to my coti. Kind of my last resort fail-safe. I feel my Cr2O3 makes my edge much more harsh.

It also depends on your stone. I have a select that I probably would use paste because it wouldn't make my blade sharp enough. My La Dressante is much finer and puts the edge on it I don't need anything to do. I have actually shaved straight off the stone no stropping but I don't recommend that.

I am a professed coticulist. I strop and shave right off the stone. I think I have hit a pasted strop 2 maybe 3 times to no effect, so I gave up on that aspect, I can also attest to the the keeness of a coticule edge. I have shaved with edges from all of the following:

High grit synthetic
pasted strops
Thuringian & Eschers
Lapping Film


It has been my discovery that a well honed coticule edge shaves just as close as the others.

Cheers!

I came to believe, a long time ago, that the reason those old barbers I knew in NJ 30 years ago, liked the coticule was for its mellow 'safe' edge. It is one thing to shave ourselves, quite another to shave one customer after another. There was a time when pro barbers routinely had to shave many customers.

I don't know what is meant by "half strokes" ? Shaving or honing ? Anyway, I can get a real good shaving edge off a 'good' coticule, AFAIC they are not all created equal, but I prefer to begin with a synthetic and work up to the coticule. We can do it on a coticule but IME bevel setting on them is more work than it is worth if you have a good synthetic bevel setter. Taking it a step further to the sharpening, again, if it is a coticule that lends itself to that all is well.

If you have a norton 4k or a naniwa 3 or 5 it is worth the time and effort saved to go to one of those, unless you have a coticule that excels in that area. Kind of like toting a large and heavy box instead of using a hand truck to move it. As far as the finishing goes, sometimes the same coticule will be equal in sharpening and finishing. Other times it will not be as good with one as the other. If you have one that is equal in both areas all the better. Figure out where your particular coticule fits in the equation and use it accordingly to save frustration.

I like the shave off an escher better than that of a coticule. Coticule aficionado and pro barber Gary Haywood probably has as much experience as anyone with coticules of all types. He found the edge off escher/thuringans 'crisp'. He generally preferred that of the coticule. Now he will sometimes follow with chrom-ox or paste, depending on the situation. The stone, the razor, it is a matter of feel for that particular razor and honing session. Same with me. Once in awhile I'll hit a few licks on the green stuff or diamond spray but not on a regular basis. Chrom-ox, paste or spray are another tool in the honing arsenal to be utilized if we want it.

No rules, do what you like. Experiment with the tools and see what the results are. I have found that if a razor is too 'scary sharp' or 'crisp' taking it to a coticule for 5 round trips with the weight of the blade will mellow out that edge a bit. Alternatively I've taken one or more that were too mellow and followed with an escher, or paste, and brought them up to the desired level. It is all individual according to what the shaver is looking for in an edge. All of the above is IMHO, based on my experience. YMMV.

I don't use and have never used any pasted anything after a good coticule honing, although it's definately not unheard of, I think it's actually quite common. I don't feel I need it though.

Lately for full honing I have been using circles a lot, which work a tiny bit faster/more effectively than half-strokes. Half strokes (back and forth strokes) give you a bit more control over the edge progress. Half strokes are faster than X-strokes, that's why (if I'm not using circles) I really don't use X-strokes until I'm finishing.

I feel I keep my pressure pretty even from start to finish, although if I notice somewhere towards the end of a honing that the edge isn't quite there I might use a few lightly pressured half-strokes. It helps sometimes, but don't overdo it, because as you add pressure you decrease the honing angle ever so slightly, especially on the thinner grinds. This can result in a slightly convexted bevel and in the middle of the honing process that does more harm than good.

In general I don't feel I need a lot more pressure than the weight of the blade. Think of the pressure you put on an eraser - never beyond that. More pressure and the best case scenario is that it doesn't change anything; worst case scenario is that it actually works counter-productive.