Thread: Joe Chandler, can I have a honing lesson?

Sorry for the limited replies, guys. (Hey, I'm a poet and didn't know it ) Been so busy, I haven't been keeping up with the forums. That being said, here goes...

Generally speaking, I use the 1000 grit Norton, although if the edge is very bad, I'll use the Scary Sharp with 600 grit SiC paper (wet). Ross makes this blue gel glue stick that's the best I've found for attaching the paper to the glass...not worth a pinch of monkey poop for anything else, but works great for this application (cheap, too...$1.76 at Wally World for 6 tubes of it). When I get an ebay special in, I'll tape the spine and do about 50 strokes with the 1000 grit. This removes (most of the time) all of the oxidized metal, so I'm working with good stuff again.
Follow that up with 50 strokes on the 4k. This will smooth out the 1000 grit scratches, giving me a nice, sharp, even bevel. Generally, by this point, it'll be popping hairs, so I go to the Tam O' Shanter hone, and then on to my finishing hones. Seems like a lot of strokes, but remember, not much pressure, and this is only if I'm working with an older razor that may have an oxidized edge. When I regrind one, I always start with the 600 grit paper on glass. I have to put a sharp bevel on it to make sure it's ground even, and the bevel isn't too wide.

The above procedure is for establishing or rebuilding a bevel on an older or abused razor. It's way too aggressive for sharpening something newer, less worn, or properly maintained.

Thanks Joe. It looks like I'm on the right track as I adopt a similar approach, just using N8k instead od the O'Shanter, but it's good to get a confirmation from the pros

Originally Posted by dylandog

Not to hijack, just a brief aside while we wait for Chandler to wake up: why do you guys who restore a lot of razors use 1000 grit sandpaper, going through this business of taping, etc., instead of buying a Norton 1000 grit stone?

I have used both. The 1000 grit Norton is much slower cutting and the 1000 sandpaper is inexpensive for new guys.

I do about the same as Nenad except I do not tape/glue the sandpaper. Where most of us are different is the amount of pressure we use and how we check our progress. The tests I use are the thumbnail test, thumbpad test, HHT and a microscope and of course the shave test.

Originally Posted by superfly

Here's how I do it.

I glue some 1000 wet sandpaper on a piece of glass, with a double stick tape. I take care that all of the tape is glued to the edges of the paper, otherwise water gets in, and make high spots on the sandpaper. Start honing, 5 strokes at a side, maybe with the other hand on the spine for more control and stability. The trick is to check the edge often, and to know when it is done. I do it by looking directly at the edge (like I am gonna slice my nose in half) under a very bright light (my desktop lamp). When you stop seeing any reflection on the edge, bevel creating is almost finished.

I than take 10-15 regular, alternating sides, one handed strokes, and proceed on a higher grit sandpaper.

I do around 10-20 regular strokes on a similary prepared 2000 grit, and then I move to the Norton 4000.

Now it's time to observe the bevel. When it's all the same color, it's done. It usually takes some 20-30 strokes on the 4000. The same thing for the 8000. When the bevel looses the 4000 grit satin finish, and became high polished, black ice looking, you are done. Strop, shave, enjoy...

I'm usually done with all the above steps in half hour...


cheers,
Nenad

Originally Posted by Joe Chandler

Generally speaking, I use the 1000 grit Norton, although if the edge is very bad, I'll use the Scary Sharp with 600 grit SiC paper (wet). Ross makes this blue gel glue stick that's the best I've found for attaching the paper to the glass...not worth a pinch of monkey poop for anything else, but works great for this application (cheap, too...$1.76 at Wally World for 6 tubes of it). When I get an ebay special in, I'll tape the spine and do about 50 strokes with the 1000 grit. This removes (most of the time) all of the oxidized metal, so I'm working with good stuff again.

Joe,

OK, this is where I think I need help to start out.
-How much pressure do you use at the 1K stage?
-How do you angle the blade during the stroke?
-What do you do if the razor has uneven spine wear?
-What are you trying to achieve at this stage? (Does the edge look very straight under a microscope, or does it have some irregularities?)

Josh

Another question: At what point do you remove the tape? Part way through the 1K passes, or before the 4K, or never....?

Josh

Originally Posted by joshearl

Another question: At what point do you remove the tape?

Josh

I usually remove the tape on my way back from the mailbox with the package of newly honed razors so the package is openned before I even get i the house <g>

You mean you guys actually do this stuff yourselves??? Gosh, how Bohemian!

Tony <g>

Originally Posted by joshearl

Joe,

OK, this is where I think I need help to start out.
-How much pressure do you use at the 1K stage?
-How do you angle the blade during the stroke?
-What do you do if the razor has uneven spine wear?
-What are you trying to achieve at this stage? (Does the edge look very straight under a microscope, or does it have some irregularities?)

Josh

At 1k, you're not using a lot of pressure. It's hard to explain, since I go mostly by feel. I've never put a gauge on it. Just enough that it feels like it's removing metal. My stroke stays consistent throughout the entire honing process, but usually around 70 degrees (perpendicular to the hone being 90 degrees) If the razor has uneven spine wear, you're probably going to have an uneven edge. That doesn't mean it won't hone up fine, but the bevel isn't going to be perfectly even...I honed a brand new Dovo that was slightly uneven. It happens. What the spine does affects what the edge does. With the 1K, all I'm trying to do is establish a rough bevel and remove oxidized metal. The 4k is for really establishing the edge bevel. A wise man once told me that honing is nothing more than establishing a good bevel, then polishing the hell out of it. As far as what I'm trying to achieve; as I said, I'm just reestablishing a bevel and removing oxidized metal from the edge. If done correctly, it'll look straight under a microscope, but the scratch pattern will be very pronounced, rather than looking satiny and smooth, as off the 4k. It can't be done with every razor. Small variances in the razor affect the edge, but you don't want it too extreme. Extreme differences show major problems. I can control it a bit on my regrinds, but not on ones I didn't do myself.

Originally Posted by joshearl

Another question: At what point do you remove the tape? Part way through the 1K passes, or before the 4K, or never....?

Josh

Again, this can be a matter of preference. I remove the tape once it starts popping a few hairs. It's just that I've found it easier to get the edge over that final hump without the tape. IIRC, Randy keeps the tape on every time he sharpens a razor of any value, even if it's on the paddle.

Thats where I get lost. If you keep the tape on through the paddle polishing doesn't that offset the edge/spine angle for stropping? At some point don't you have to "fix" the bevel and make it "flat" on the spine so it strops correctly?