Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 35
  1. #1
    Razorsmith JoshEarl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Western Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    2,659
    Thanked: 320

    Default Barber hone coaching wanted

    I feel like I'm in an abusive relationship with my barber hones: I love them, but they don't treat me right.

    Right now I have five: the three-hone package from Tilly with the Gem, cushion strop and lithide, a red-brown hone, and a Swaty.

    I've tussled with them several times and always been disappointed, particularly with the Swaty. The hones just seem to dull my edges. My razors come off the Norton 8K with an edge that passes the HHT easily.

    Would a few members who consider themselves barber hone pros be willing to give me some coaching here?

    I guess I'd start with the Swaty and lithide. Would you use either of these after a Norton 8K, or are they about the same level?

    Are there any techiques you've picked up that really made a difference?

    I'll try your suggestions and report back on my progress.

    Thanks,
    Josh

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,180
    Thanked: 1

    Default

    Josh:

    I don't know much about barber hones but from what I've learned, using a barber hone after using the 8k side of a Norton isn't useful. Most barber hones are around 6k.

  3. #3
    Cheapskate Honer Wildtim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    A2 Michigan
    Posts
    2,371
    Thanked: 241

    Default

    Not exactly the most experienced here but....I do use a barber hone as my finishing step. I use a two line Swaty, purchased off E-bay, and never lapped by me. I cleaned it up with some Bon Ami and a toothbrush and now use it on all my razors. My first couple of times with it I got the same results you are describing, dull edges. then somehow it clicked and now it is my finisher and my refresher.

    The process for a razor coming off of the 8000 (mine are sun tiger stones) is to give it about twenty passes on the Swaty dry, then 20 with lather, strop and shave. If that didn't do it I go back to the Swaty with lather for ten passes before the next strop and shave test. I refresh the same way five to ten passes (depending on level of pulling and how this razor behaves) on a lathered Swaty to bring the edge back.

    I use it held in my right hand (I'm left handed) with a modified X-stroke. The stroke starts out at about a twenty degree angle along the hone (spine flat of course) then I kind of slice down the last inch or so. Don't ask me why I do this all I can say is it feels right and since I started doing it the hone has worked, where the straight X felt awkward and didn't. I also don't make any special effort to hold the hone parallel to the floor usually its canted about twenty degrees to the left which is more relaxed for both my razor hand and stone hand than trying to hold everything flat. I do think thats the key for me, that I use this hone in a nice soft grip and with very light pressure move the razor along it smoothly and naturally.

    My rougher honing feels more like work, I'm shaping the bevel or cutting away metal, its harsh or abrasive (excuse the pun . The fine finishing Swaty work is relaxed and smooth, I am polishing, smoothing, coaxing the edge to perfection not forcing it there.

    Hope you can get something from all this
    Good luck!!!
    Last edited by Wildtim; 01-20-2007 at 12:23 PM.

  4. #4
    Electric Razor Aficionado
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    3,396
    Thanked: 346

    Default

    I use my Dubl Duck hone a fair bit, and used to use my extra-fine "The King" hone a lot until I dropped it and chipped the ^%$#@ out of it

    You've got to lap them, like you would a norton or any other hone. They are designed for freehand use, just hold them lightly from the end with your fingers or rest them in your palm and the instability in this position means the slightest touch from the razor's spine will tilt them flat up against the razor and keep them there as you stroke, even if the razor's angle changes a bit the stone will pivot to match. I hold my razors by the middle of the scales and let the razor's weight do the work. You can use them dry, but I get a finer edge (and no clogging) if I use shaving lather as a lube.

    I wouldn't bother using them as a finishing hone unless you know you've got an extra fine one - the 3-line swatys are supposedly fine enough for this use. I don't have a swaty, but my "The King" hone is fine enough to use as a finishing hone, even used dry it makes an edge comparable in feel to my 15k Shapton (but is a much slower hone).

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    882
    Thanked: 108

    Default

    This is very helpful for me, since I've never had much luck with my 3-line swaty either.

    I've heard it said that the 3-line is finer on one side, but for the life of me I can't tell the difference. They feel equal to the touch, and both sides just dull my razors.

    With these descriptions in mind though I'm going to give the swaty another shot.

  6. #6
    Senior Member superfly's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Toronto, ON
    Posts
    1,950
    Thanked: 16

    Default

    I have two barber hones, the Itsapeech, and the Lithide, and I believe both of them are coarser than the Norton 8000. So, I don't use them.

    Nenad

  7. #7
    Electric Razor Aficionado
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    3,396
    Thanked: 346

    Default

    Make sure the swaty is lapped, and chamfer the edges.

  8. #8
    Senior Member azjoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    USA - Arizona
    Posts
    1,543
    Thanked: 27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshEarl View Post
    Are there any techniques you've picked up that really made a difference?
    A member we haven't seen around for quite a while (Hal Wilson) was a great proponent of them... he is truly a barber hone addict. He mentions [in this post] viewing the The Lost Art of Straight Razor Shaving by Greg Ives as inspirational. I've never watched the video, but you might give it a shot. There was a fair amount of discussion about barber hones a long while ago... but my aging memory can't remember whether it was on this site or the Yahoo SRP... might even have been in the Yahoo SRP archives.

    Anyway, I have a barber hone but use it infrequently. I never used it enough to say I really mastered it. But when I've been lazy and let my rotation get down to the last sharp razor, and that one gets uncomfortable part way thru the shave, a couple light strokes on the barber hone and a quick strop allows me to finish the shave... quick and easy. Hal might disagree, but for me the barber hone will never match the edge I can set with a 4/8K Norton followed by croxide (or diamond) on a leather bench hone.

    All that said... anyone know whatever happened to Hal... he hasn't checked in here since last Fall?

  9. #9
    Razorsmith JoshEarl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Western Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    2,659
    Thanked: 320

    Default

    Wildtim,

    OK, there's some stuff in here that I haven't tried before. I'm going to give it a shot, particularly the stroke you're describing.

    MParker's suggestion about holding the razor by the middle of the scales is also interesting.

    I'll hone up a razor to HHT sharp on the 8K and then try finishing on the Swaty.

    Stay tuned...

    Josh

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtim View Post
    Not exactly the most experienced here but....I do use a barber hone as my finishing step. I use a two line Swaty, purchased off E-bay, and never lapped by me. I cleaned it up with some Bon Ami and a toothbrush and now use it on all my razors. My first couple of times with it I got the same results you are describing, dull edges. then somehow it clicked and now it is my finisher and my refresher.

    The process for a razor coming off of the 8000 (mine are sun tiger stones) is to give it about twenty passes on the Swaty dry, then 20 with lather, strop and shave. If that didn't do it I go back to the Swaty with lather for ten passes before the next strop and shave test. I refresh the same way five to ten passes (depending on level of pulling and how this razor behaves) on a lathered Swaty to bring the edge back.

    I use it held in my right hand (I'm left handed) with a modified X-stroke. The stroke starts out at about a twenty degree angle along the hone (spine flat of course) then I kind of slice down the last inch or so. Don't ask me why I do this all I can say is it feels right and since I started doing it the hone has worked, where the straight X felt awkward and didn't. I also don't make any special effort to hold the hone parallel to the floor usually its canted about twenty degrees to the left which is more relaxed for both my razor hand and stone hand than trying to hold everything flat. I do think thats the key for me, that I use this hone in a nice soft grip and with very light pressure move the razor along it smoothly and naturally.

    My rougher honing feels more like work, I'm shaping the bevel or cutting away metal, its harsh or abrasive (excuse the pun . The fine finishing Swaty work is relaxed and smooth, I am polishing, smoothing, coaxing the edge to perfection not forcing it there.

    Hope you can get something from all this
    Good luck!!!

  10. #10
    Member AFDavis11's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    5,726
    Thanked: 1486

    Default

    A lot of guys who think they are Gods gift to honing can't stand barber hones. First problem is you have to spend as much time practicing with them as you did your Norton. Second, they cut at completely differing speeds. They are really a very different animal.

    The only thing I can suggest is that if you buy 3 barber hones; atleast one will be great, one ok, and one difficult. They all will work and they won't overhone easily. I think your purchase choice Josh was pretty good.

    The next step is to use light airy strokes. It will only take 6 or so. And again, dry, then with lather helps. I use lather only and about 6 laps alone.

    Not only were barbers needing a convient hone but they were an inpatient bunch I bet. No time to stroke 40 laps on an 8K Norton to get an edge back.

    As always the correct stroke and X pattern is also helpful.

    I've also noticed some blades take better to them than others, but never kept stats.

    Some of the barber hones you mentioned are not finishing stones and some are btw.

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •