Thread: How many strokes on a Norton 4/8K?

After shaving with my razor, which is a Pribyl Bros. full-hollow, for about a month, I noticed a distinct decrease in shave performance. Possibly due to the fact that I have a really coarse beard growth that grows in multiple directions, and I have to shave Mon-Fri due to Army regs.

So, I decided to touch up the edge with my hone. In the beginning, I went 50 strokes on each edge on the 4K, and 100 on the 8k. I used an X pattern, no tape, razor flat on the stone with my fingers lightly resting on the body of the blade between the spine and the edge to ensure that the razor did not lift up during the stroke. I would rinse the stone after every few passes.

Afterwards, I stropped on a clean linen strop (50 strokes) and leather strop (100 strokes).

The shave I took afterwards was horrible! The razor was not skipping or tugging, but it felt like it was not cutting at all.

So, I went back to the hone the next day, and did 10 strokes on the 4K, and 20 strokes on the 8K. Stropped same as above. The shave was much, much better!

So, how many stokes on a hone?

I think that another part of my problem was that i was stropping incorrectly...not pulling the strop tight enough and applying too much pressure to the trailing edge of the blade on the backstroke (towards me). I have since taken steps to mitigate that issue. What I found was that, instead of trying to roll the razor on the spine for the backstroke, it helps me to actually lift the razor off the strop as I turn it over, then place it back on the strop for the stroke. Less stress on the wrist, more control over the razor and stroke.

There is no magic number. I will tell you this though. If all you needed was a touch up you didn't need to go to the 4K and in both cases you did way too many strokes. if the shave was worse after that you need to look at your honing competency. I know when I do a touch up I'll use a 12K type stone and probably 10-30 strokes depending on the razor is usually enough to do the job.

Keeping the spine on the strop while stropping is a good technique to learn. It avoids most of the usual mistakes.

I am by no means an experienced honer, but I would recommend reading and watching the video on Lynn's pyramid system. I can get a shave ready razor every time now and every once in awhile I really nail one! The Big Spender is right in my opinion that you used too many strokes (I always came from the school of the more the better, but guys like Lynn and Glen alway say "less is better"). So I finally listened to them and it works for me. The way I sold that philosophy to myself was I figured there was No Way I could do consistent X strokes and keep the razor flat without applying too much pressure for that many strokes in a row!

+1 to the pyramid method (though as thebigspendur points out, you shouldn't need to go all the way back to 4k), and especially to a light touch on the hone and on the strop. It might help you to practice stropping with a butter knife, to make the motion more familiar, and get used to keeping the spine on the strop. Every time you lift it off, it seems to me, you create a risk of damaging the edge on its next landing. Stropping doesn't need to happen quickly; don't try to run it any faster than you're comfortable with.

Best wishes to you, and good luck getting a nice edge back.

The hardest part to learn IMO is knowing how far from sharp you are. HHT and popping arm hairs if you know how to do these tests. The ultimate and only significant test is the shave test. If your razor is shaving but tugging, it needs little, even if it feels dull and doesnt cut alot it probably needs a little more, How much? Thats what you have to figure out. Pyramid is pretty foolproof and you cant go wrong with it, although I admit I dont use it anymore.

My best advice[for what it's worth!?] is to send the razor out to a honing fellow from this site, there are many good people to choose from and when you get your razor back it's best to work on your stropping technique before you tackle honing, one thing before the other, walk before you run. That's my small bit of wisdom for the day.

That's why its always good to have a least 2 decent decent straight's on hand for this type of shaving problems.

Just my 2 cents, tinkersd

Agreed that you didn't have to go back to the 4K. I'm guessing that by putting your finger on the spine on the 8K, that you were putting too much pressure on the edge. On the last finishing 20 passes or so on my finishing stone, I literally let the razor float on my hand with fingers open so that the edge is riding like a feather on the stone.

Same goes with the strop. I'm guessing that you are putting pressure on the edge. Again, there should be no pressure on the strop and you are only polishing the edge, not sharpening it.

Treat that edge like you are working with a feather... literally a feather's edge.

I think that too many strokes were taken. Also, did you alternate sides with each stroke? If not you may now have an uneven bevel. I'm not an advocate of holding down the blade, like you mention while doing the stroke. While it feels like you are not adding any additional pressure on the blade and this works OK with knife blades this usually will cause uneven pressure on the contact with the hone with a razor. I would practice, on a junker razor or butter knife, holding the blade flat as honemeisters, like Lynn, demonstrate lifting up your elbow and using your pinky finger on the handle to help hold the blade up and even. The edge is very small and delicate and the very slightest forces can cause it to hit or not hit the hone correctly. With practice you will 'feel' when its hitting right. Also, the water will provide a good clue if its evenly touching the hone. You can also apply a permanent marker to the very edge. Hone, then re-examine the edge under magnification to ensure that you are evenly presenting it to the hone.

Edit; just saw that jbtusa said what I said but in a much easier to understand way.

I'd suggest you start learning to hone with one hand. Resting your fingers on the blade will likely add pressure to a full hollow even if you think not. A little torque towards the edge will prevent the edge lifting & lessen pressure on the spine too.