Thread: Solving a Mystery

Originally Posted by HNSB

...Mike: can you elaborate on "grain lattice"?

Think of a collection of crystals with spaces in between. Swiss cheese is a good example but not crystalline.

I'm wondering if the grain structure (crystalline lattice) on this blade is on the larger side. A fine grain simply has less available space between crystals. It would explain crumbling and the ability of the rust to penetrate deeper into the metal. The process of reducing grain structures during heat treatment may not have been well understood in the days of old razors. That kind of problem would be most attributable to overheating at some point in the forging or during heat treatment.

The quality of the glass is much more important than the number before the X. For the extent to which magnification is used for razors, it probably doesn't matter, but trust me on that one.

What I'd be very interested to know is at what point it shaves, and how it looks at that point under the 'scope. I mostly operate on an "ignorance is bliss" basis when I hone, and only really crack out the magnification if the shave test fails (or, more often, it shaves but then post-shave the edge dies a bit).

I guess what I am wondering (and I am sure newer honers are too) is when do those crumbly bits make a difference to the shave, and when do they not? What can you get away with, and what is just tweaking at the margin?

James.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

I guess what I am wondering (and I am sure newer honers are too) is when do those crumbly bits make a difference to the shave, and when do they not? What can you get away with, and what is just tweaking at the margin?

Sounds like a good topic for another thread...

Originally Posted by HNSB

Sounds like a good topic for another thread...

Don't look at me - I can barely take a decent photo at the best of times let alone down a microscope...

James.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

I guess what I am wondering (and I am sure newer honers are too) is when do those crumbly bits make a difference to the shave, and when do they not? What can you get away with, and what is just tweaking at the margin?

James.

I've honed a razor where 1/3 of the blade was like that (toe) and it did not shave comfortably until I got to good steel again. It took several return trips to the 320 DMT and some bread-knifing on the corner of a hone to get past the crumbly area of steel.

It shaved very well once I had it down to clean/strong steel again.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

I guess what I am wondering (and I am sure newer honers are too) is when do those crumbly bits make a difference to the shave, and when do they not? What can you get away with, and what is just tweaking at the margin?

If you can see them easily thru a low power loupe (8-10x) they're likely big enough to affect the shave IME. If only visible at high powers then the shave test will tell. Some razors will shave much better than they look so possibly there is a size of microchip that does /does not affect the smoothness of a shave. The guys that say honing isn't rocket science are right , it's more like quantum physics.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

it's more like quantum physics.

Schrodinger's razor was both shave ready and not shave ready until he shave tested it.

Einstein once said "Got does not play with hanging hairs."

Thread can go on for infinity Holli.50 posts in maybe you should solve the mystery.

I am saying that the blade temper has been compromised and that the bevel deteriorates. Bread knife, reset bevel, try again. Use the magnification after the 1K to check the edge. I have a razor that I honed 3 times and have not got it yet.