Thread: Thuringen size indecision

I will buy son as possible a thuringen stone to complete my honing setup

I have a few doubts about the size to chose

"250x75x20"mm 26,9 euro
"200x50x20"mm 18,9 euro

I know there is a little 8 euro of difference, but I dubt about the bigger size utility.

Best Regards

Matteo Mazzarese

250x75 ... I think bigger is better in this case.

X

If you can get one big enough so the entire razor fits on the hone that way you don't need to do the X pattern.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

If you can get one big enough so the entire razor fits on the hone that way you don't need to do the X pattern.

I wonder about this - I read that if you don't do the X you are risking overhoning the middle and getting a frown, eventually (maybe a long while). And that if you try to avoid this by putting more pressure on the toe then you are probably going to overhone the toe itself.

Just curious what you guys think about this

Cheers
Ivo

Ivo,
I have heard that here before but it makes me wonder. On a wide stone with a non-X pattern the razor simply moves straight up and back. All parts of the blade are in full contact over the entire pass. Now, on a narrow stone or with an X on any stone both the toe and heel leave the stone at some point on every pass. Only the center stays on the stone the full time........so, why would it not then wear away faster, creating a frown?

EL, Lynn, Randy?

Tony

Um, well, Tony's right IMHO. It's the belly of the blade in the X pattern that stays on the stone all the time and wears away quickest. However, a lot of the old timers, from what I've read (and I don't remember the source), advised that extra pressure be given to the heel and the tip of the razor when honing.

I, of late, have been using my smaller hones when I do the X pattern. The one Belgian I have is not perfectly flat but crowned in the center along the length. This crown allows me to pass the blade over the stone and have all points get pretty much equal exposure. I also have a small Escher that is excellent for this.

When I don't want to do the X pattern I reach for the wider hones like my Thuringen. No X pattern, no frown on the blade. That's just my 2¢.

Regards,
EL

Almost all of the blades I've honed have been vintage blades in various states of disrepair, so take this with a grain of salt, but...

It seems to me that with most razors the entire edge doesn't touch if you go straight across. There's usually a slight variation in the edge--a slight smile--that keeps the toe or heel from touching. So I've found an X pattern to be essential on most of the blades I've worked on. (X-Man's rolling stroke would also work here...)

But assuming that the edge does come into contact all during the stroke: Several members have indicated that the heel gets more pressure automatically, because it's closer to your hand. In theory the X would balance that by "underhoning" the heel. If that's true, it seems logical that the toe would get less pressure than the heel, and to hone it properly it would need to spend more time on the hone than the middle and heel.

Has anyone actually ever developed a frown from using an X pattern on either a narrow or wide stone?

Josh

Josh -

I shave not too often, and have too many razors to develop a frown on any of them in any way for the amount of time I have been doing this

EL -

What you say about the X pattern may or may not be true - depending how you do it. I believe you can have a good X pattern where all parts of the blade stay the same time on the hone (depending on hone width and angle b/n blade and hone). I also have a narrow Escher that works for me like this. However, my X pattern is not as consistent as I would like - I don't think I achieve the ideal of having all parts of the edge on the hone for the same, more or less, time. I can get close, I believe, but still need to improve

Cheers
Ivo

Originally Posted by Tony Miller

Ivo,
I have heard that here before but it makes me wonder. On a wide stone with a non-X pattern the razor simply moves straight up and back. All parts of the blade are in full contact over the entire pass. Now, on a narrow stone or with an X on any stone both the toe and heel leave the stone at some point on every pass. Only the center stays on the stone the full time........so, why would it not then wear away faster, creating a frown?

EL, Lynn, Randy?

Tony

Lynn has mentioned this somewhere: he says he always does X-patterns and never creates a frown. Maybe it is a pressure thing: if you apply similar pressure during a lap then the pressure per sq. inch is higher when only the heel or toe are in touch with the hone.
If you prefer a smile on your razor 50 mm width is preferable. This has been covered elsewhere extensively. All the barber manuals I have ever seen show pictures of hones narrower than the length of razor's blade. Most barber hones I have seen are also less than 3" wide.