Kamisuri question

Ok guys i have just got my first Kamisuri ,it had never been honed but i have started to hone it with a bbw because i didnt want to go to coarse on it.So the bbw is working but its taking a long time its nearly there but not quite ,would a 1000 or 2000 grit synthetic be ok to speed things up a bit and get the bevel set or should i just be patient and keep on with the bbw.Here are some picks of where i am up to any advice would be great thanks,there is a little spot on the front of the blade and the heal of the front of the blade does not even look like its being hit by the hone.
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/...psffa39ac6.jpg
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0ea20b13.jpg

These videos by gssixgun should help!!

Regards,

Howard :)

gssixgun Kamisori part 1.wmv - YouTube

gssixgun Kamisori part 2 - YouTube

Can you get a slightly different angle Pic of the Non-stamped side...

Something just doesn't look quite right there, it almost looks as though the entire side has been honed away..


Here are some threads that Oz did that have some great pics and info too

http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...r-restore.html

http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...e-restore.html

That Kamisori has a lot of hone wear, you should have a hollow grind along the whole blade. Right now it is very possible you will have to deal with some sticktion on the hones(especially higher grit ones) from the larger flat area on the Omote.

Yep, the non stamped side could do with a little fix up!
It can still hone up fine but it will be easier with less metal on the hone.

Here's how I fixed one of mine;

Attachment 132277

A diamond tool and some tape if I should slip.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lemur

Yep, the non stamped side could do with a little fix up!
It can still hone up fine but it will be easier with less metal on the hone.

Here's how I fixed one of mine;

Attachment 132277

A diamond tool and some tape if I should slip.

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Can you show what you did with the tool?

Long time ago so haven't got any more pics than another that is sort of the same but might help with some explanation.

Here's another;

Attachment 132278

At first I tried the traditional way for Jap. tools, with a scraper, didn't work, the steel was to hard.
So I set up this tool, a diamond tool for "Dremel and such" and a tool holder.
Just held it lengthwise the Kamisori and grinded away, moved the tape so I could do a small area at a time.
The diamond tool is quite course and left tool marks looking like the real deal.
It was so easy to do, if I have to do it again I would do it the same way!

Snapple bottles have a near perfect round for most Omotes. Get some two-way tape or two-way 1/16 weather stripping and a 3X2 piece of 320 W/D sandpaper, adhere the sandpaper to the bottle and reshape the Omote going across the length of the Kamisori, take your time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bayamontate

Snapple bottles have a near perfect round for most Omotes. Get some two-way tape and a 3X2 piece of 320 W/D sandpaper, adhere the sandpaper to the bottle and reshape the Omote going across the length of the Kamisori, take your time.

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Sounds good but what's a "Snapple bottle", diameter?
My tool was small in diameter but it worked out by moving it and then I remember holding it a little sideways.
I think the main thing is to protect the sides you don't want to touch and then go with something course if you want to keep the rough feeling of it.

I don't know what the diameter on a Snapple bottle is but typical Omote are 6-7mm measured up from the edge. Your diamond tool will make contact and take off metal on 1 +/- mm of the Omote per pass. It can be done but it will require a lot of patience and touch, either will work.

So what you guys are telling me is that the rough section in the middle of the un stamped side of the blade should run the whole way through from heal to toe and the hone should only touch the shoulder and the bevel on the blade?when I got it it looked as if someone had just started to hone it and then stopped,ok the blade must be a little warped or something and I thought it was going ok,would a pic from the front of the blade be helpful to show the shape of it? And on the back with the stamps should I keep honing the shoulder down until the hone hits the blade all the way along? Thanks .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thebigG

So what you guys are telling me is that the rough section in the middle of the un stamped side of the blade should run the whole way through from heal to toe and the hone should only touch the shoulder and the bevel on the blade?when I got it it looked as if someone had just started to hone it and then stopped,ok the blade must be a little warped or something and I thought it was going ok,would a pic from the front of the blade be helpful to show the shape of it? And on the back with the stamps should I keep honing the shoulder down until the hone hits the blade all the way along? Thanks .

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You got it all right! :)

OK here are a couple more shots of the kamisori and a pic i
drew of what it looks like in green and the blue line is how it should look? just want to make sure befor i start the process thank guys.
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1401a8a4.jpg
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/...psa2627ed7.jpg
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/...ps656a2bc5.jpg
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/...psa0dab08f.jpg
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3ca84e47.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lemur

At first I tried the traditional way for Jap. tools, with a scraper, didn't work, the steel was to hard.

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Actually the omote side non stamped is usually iron & very soft.

I really hope the razor was not new as it now has really excessive hone wear like a well worn vintage. Way too much pressure which should have been directed at the edge not the whole blade face. Hopefully you can recreate the hollow & direct your fingertip pressure to the edge only.

Seeing there is no contact in the middle of edge, if the pattern is reversed on the Ura (stamped side) the blade may be warped but possibly is where your pressure was greatest.

I know Jknives can be straightened if warped but a 2" blade may be more likely to crack.

Oz I am really confused with why the scratches are running long ways and not Spine to Edge, I really wonder what happened with this razor..
The whole thing strikes me as odd


Thinking more it almost looks like somebody tried get rid of the asymmetrical grind :shrug:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Oz I am really confused with why the scratches are running long ways and not Spine to Edge, I really wonder what happened with this razor..
The whole thing strikes me as odd


Thinking more it almost looks like somebody tried get rid of the asymmetrical grind :shrug:

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G, the Ura (back or stamped side) is always finished with long ways scratches but someone has already tried restoring the front (omote) so the original spine to edge marks are gone. Good eye. I didn't pick that. Means it was not a new razor.

Here are the pics as from the listing and as i got it,it was not a new razor and was not represented as one.Being my first Kamisori it comes down to not having enough knowledge of these blades but i hope i can reshape it and get it shaving ,live and learn.Would a bit of tape along the shoulder of the front of the blade help me to get a better angle on the bevel and stop the hone touching the face of the blade? I did watch the vids before i started to hone so i was just putting pressure on the bevel and not the shoulder as much as possibe.I will try the tips the guys have suggested for hollowing the face out befor i go any further thanks again for all the great help.
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/...psa29d153f.jpg
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3017bccc.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

G, the Ura (back or stamped side) is always finished with long ways scratches but someone has already tried restoring the front (omote) so the original spine to edge marks are gone. Good eye. I didn't pick that. Means it was not a new razor.

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Yeah I was at first thinking bad honing but bad honing would go spine to edge maybe a slight angle, but those scratches are lengthwise,

TheBigG: take what Oz and I are talking about with a grain of salt, approach whatever you are going to do slowly and with much thought, we are going by pics trying to figure out "Why".. If the razor was in hand we might be thinking way differently because we could touch and feel too, also running the edge on a hone tells us a ton more than just looking :(

If you successfully hollow the front & it's not warped you won't need tape. As a rule it's never used on these anyway.
One thing you could try is single finger pressure where there is no contact at the middle but be careful not to start a frown.

Ok so here is whats happened so far I did hollow out the front of the blade and reset the bevels the blade is slightly warped bowed a bit in towards the back of the blade.I can see how easy it would be to make a frown ,so i have got it shaving arm hair but i cant seem to get it to that scary sharpness that is needed i have done the 7 to 1 the 5 to 1 and finished on light strokes 3 to 1 on a thuri and charnley forest mirror polish on the blade any sugestions welcome.
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1ff856f0.jpg
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6eb7dfa4.jpg
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/...psc21c2726.jpg

Hard to know from pics but usually they have very hard steel. You may need to hone a little more or maybe the bevel is not perfect yet.

Ok i will go back to the bbw and start again i just dont want to take off to much steel but i suppose it has to be done.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thebigG

Ok i will go back to the bbw and start again i just dont want to take off to much steel but i suppose it has to be done.

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You may not need to remove much steel if the problem is at finish stage.
If you are confident you are close just run thru a predetermined amount of finishing strokes & retest, if necessary 2 or 3 x.

You can often tell by the shave where you're at but of course bevel set has to be right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

I know Jknives can be straightened if warped but a 2" blade may be more likely to crack.

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Just a late heads up which may be useful for others in future.
I've since found that Nihon kamisori, if warped, can be straightened by careful bending due to their their laminated construction & ultra thin steel component..

I take it that would be done by some one who knows what they are doing,probably not me!I haven't gotten back to it,I will soon and I will take your advice on the finishing strokes cheers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Just a late heads up which may be useful for others in future.
I've since found that Nihon kamisori, if warped, can be straightened by careful bending due to their their laminated construction & ultra thin steel component..

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Any good source on that?
I know they cold hammer kanna blades (jap. plane blades) if they need to fix them, they can warp over time because of tension from the hardening.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lemur

Any good source on that?

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Not on the equipment or technique but using a miniature version of the woodblocks used for straightening katana would be a start.