Kamisori honing question

[DDTech]

I recently got a used kamisori.

When I received it I found some hone marks on it. Not knowing if this may be from the original honing I asked the seller if it had been honed and if so, how it had been honed.
Meanwhile I looked at the edge under the microscope and found it in a really good shape but - and that did bother me a bit - both sides more or less equal - like on a western razor.

I'm no kamisori-expert (yet) but, according to my reading and Glen's (aka gssixgun) video (love that Glen, thanks), front and back should be honed differently which, I assume, then results in a different geometry of the edge.

Then the seller answered it had been honed by a professional and gave me the address. I called that company today and spoke to the guy who does the honing. Of course he could not remember this special razor, but I also had the feeling that talking about a japanese kamisori did not ring any bell like "ah, when we get those we do this and that". it was more like "... yeah, like any razor.. I sharpen them the way I get them except when the customer wants something different".

So the call more or less confirmed my fear that my kamisori has been honed like a western razor.

What now? Is this bad, truely bad? Do something, return it (if I can)? leave it?

As I said before, the Edge itself is done very nice and the kamisori shaves well (don't know if it shaves like a kamisori should shave, but it shaves well)

Thanks for any advice

Frank

[mainaman]

can you show some pics?
If the razor shaves well that is all that matters from now on you are only maintaining the edge if there are no chips. On a finisher you can do even count for touch ups, or you can do 7:3 or 5:1 it will all work. I prefer 1:1 because I hate counting.

[DDTech]

can you show some pics?
If the razor shaves well that is all that matters from now on you are only maintaining the edge if there are no chips. On a finisher you can do even count for touch ups, or you can do 7:3 or 5:1 it will all work. I prefer 1:1 because I hate counting.

Yes, though it was really difficult to get proper pictures. The surface on the omote is almost scratch-free. no handles for reflections

The omote looks like this:




just a few tiny tiny tiny chips... or better imperfections along the edge


smoooth with a little less magnification



And the ura:

[gijames]

Need some pics
The folks with experience here, not me, could probably give sound advice on how to maintain it after seeing the edge from each side of your razor

[gssixgun]

Kamisori, are capable of extreme sharpness because of their asymmetrical grind, it really is that simple...

[DDTech]

Kamisori, are capable of extreme sharpness because of their asymmetrical grind, it really is that simple...

That's what I thought. Mine is sharp, shaves nice, but I would say it is only as nice as one of my other razors.

So is this now a worthless piece of metal?

[gssixgun]

So is this now a worthless piece of metal?

Noooooooo Just in the future honing sessions start moving it back toward a Asymmetrical edge, I would NOT advise doing it all in one session either,,

It can be slowly used and adjusted, I often do the same with razors that come to me with the slight beginnings of a frown, I don't get drastic I simply hone toward a smile and explain that to the owners, the razors are perfectly fine and after a couple of honing cycles the tendency moves toward a smile...

If I were you I would do the same, over the next couple of honing cycles stay on the 7:1 ratio all the way through the honing, until the final finisher and do 3:1 on that until the last 5 laps at 1:1 for smoothness...

You could also do a variable 10:1 - 7:1 - 5:1 - 3:1 - 1:1 those work but do get a bit count intensive

Kamisori edges are basically just a Chisel, except for the backside honing for smoothness

[DDTech]

Noooooooo Just in the future honing sessions start moving it back toward a Asymmetrical edge, I would NOT advise doing it all in one session either....

puuuhhh.... You saved my day. Unfortunately I can only click on "Thanks" once. So I have to add three more here Thanks's here THANKS THANKS THANKS ... and one more THANKS

I'll be greateful for counting, if I can keep the Kamisori. The non-drastic-approach also suits me very well. I would not like to loose a lot of metal.
If I hone it once a year, it should be fine in seven or eight years

As You recommended starting with around 8k and my currently finest is a 12k naniwa. I just would have those two. Enough?

I Guess I will prefer the constant higher ratio not for less counting but to get away from the current 1:1 ratio.

Kamisori edges are basically a Chisel except for the backside honing for smoothness

But the backside is with the edge (spine first) like I would strop, correct?; just to remove the burr.

Kind regards with the utmost respect

Yours

Frank

[gssixgun]

But the backside is with the edge (spine first) like I would strop, correct?; just to remove the burr.

You have to understand that those Vids are designed to be the basics to get a solid foundation and a shave ready edge, if you listen close I do talk about "Tricks" in some of them..

I use about 5 1:1 normal edge leading honing laps on my Nakayama with dry slurry at the very end, they are sooooo light it probably does very little but I try and squeak out the most I can for smoothness..

Those last 5 or so strokes are all about YMMV, the finish is designed for your face, so you are going to have to mess with it..

[DDTech]

You have to understand that those Vids are designed to be the basics to get a solid foundation and a shave ready edge, if you listen close I do talk about "Tricks" in some of them..

Yes, I got that, thanks. I think, I'll do a couple more shaves leaving it untouched until the edge could benefit from a touch up.
Then I'll try to get familiar with her and offer a careful bit of 7:1 on my 8k and 3:1 and final 1:1 on the 12k. Hopefully she'll start to remember then...

Did some reading and (I think that I) understood the video, but actually getting hands on it for the first time is a different story. Thanks

Frank