Thread: Kamisori honing question

I recently got a used kamisori.

When I received it I found some hone marks on it. Not knowing if this may be from the original honing I asked the seller if it had been honed and if so, how it had been honed.
Meanwhile I looked at the edge under the microscope and found it in a really good shape but - and that did bother me a bit - both sides more or less equal - like on a western razor.

I'm no kamisori-expert (yet) but, according to my reading and Glen's (aka gssixgun) video (love that Glen, thanks), front and back should be honed differently which, I assume, then results in a different geometry of the edge.

Then the seller answered it had been honed by a professional and gave me the address. I called that company today and spoke to the guy who does the honing. Of course he could not remember this special razor, but I also had the feeling that talking about a japanese kamisori did not ring any bell like "ah, when we get those we do this and that". it was more like "... yeah, like any razor.. I sharpen them the way I get them except when the customer wants something different".

So the call more or less confirmed my fear that my kamisori has been honed like a western razor.

What now? Is this bad, truely bad? Do something, return it (if I can)? leave it?

As I said before, the Edge itself is done very nice and the kamisori shaves well (don't know if it shaves like a kamisori should shave, but it shaves well)

Thanks for any advice

Frank

can you show some pics?
If the razor shaves well that is all that matters from now on you are only maintaining the edge if there are no chips. On a finisher you can do even count for touch ups, or you can do 7:3 or 5:1 it will all work. I prefer 1:1 because I hate counting.

Originally Posted by mainaman

can you show some pics?
If the razor shaves well that is all that matters from now on you are only maintaining the edge if there are no chips. On a finisher you can do even count for touch ups, or you can do 7:3 or 5:1 it will all work. I prefer 1:1 because I hate counting.

Yes, though it was really difficult to get proper pictures. The surface on the omote is almost scratch-free. no handles for reflections

The omote looks like this:




just a few tiny tiny tiny chips... or better imperfections along the edge


smoooth with a little less magnification



And the ura:

Need some pics
The folks with experience here, not me, could probably give sound advice on how to maintain it after seeing the edge from each side of your razor

Kamisori, are capable of extreme sharpness because of their asymmetrical grind, it really is that simple...

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Kamisori, are capable of extreme sharpness because of their asymmetrical grind, it really is that simple...

That's what I thought. Mine is sharp, shaves nice, but I would say it is only as nice as one of my other razors.

So is this now a worthless piece of metal?

Originally Posted by DDTech

So is this now a worthless piece of metal?

Noooooooo Just in the future honing sessions start moving it back toward a Asymmetrical edge, I would NOT advise doing it all in one session either,,

It can be slowly used and adjusted, I often do the same with razors that come to me with the slight beginnings of a frown, I don't get drastic I simply hone toward a smile and explain that to the owners, the razors are perfectly fine and after a couple of honing cycles the tendency moves toward a smile...

If I were you I would do the same, over the next couple of honing cycles stay on the 7:1 ratio all the way through the honing, until the final finisher and do 3:1 on that until the last 5 laps at 1:1 for smoothness...

You could also do a variable 10:1 - 7:1 - 5:1 - 3:1 - 1:1 those work but do get a bit count intensive

Kamisori edges are basically just a Chisel, except for the backside honing for smoothness

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Noooooooo Just in the future honing sessions start moving it back toward a Asymmetrical edge, I would NOT advise doing it all in one session either....

puuuhhh.... You saved my day. Unfortunately I can only click on "Thanks" once. So I have to add three more here Thanks's here THANKS THANKS THANKS ... and one more THANKS

I'll be greateful for counting, if I can keep the Kamisori. The non-drastic-approach also suits me very well. I would not like to loose a lot of metal.
If I hone it once a year, it should be fine in seven or eight years

As You recommended starting with around 8k and my currently finest is a 12k naniwa. I just would have those two. Enough?

I Guess I will prefer the constant higher ratio not for less counting but to get away from the current 1:1 ratio.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Kamisori edges are basically a Chisel except for the backside honing for smoothness

But the backside is with the edge (spine first) like I would strop, correct?; just to remove the burr.

Kind regards with the utmost respect

Yours

Frank

Originally Posted by DDTech

But the backside is with the edge (spine first) like I would strop, correct?; just to remove the burr.

You have to understand that those Vids are designed to be the basics to get a solid foundation and a shave ready edge, if you listen close I do talk about "Tricks" in some of them..

I use about 5 1:1 normal edge leading honing laps on my Nakayama with dry slurry at the very end, they are sooooo light it probably does very little but I try and squeak out the most I can for smoothness..

Those last 5 or so strokes are all about YMMV, the finish is designed for your face, so you are going to have to mess with it..

Originally Posted by gssixgun

You have to understand that those Vids are designed to be the basics to get a solid foundation and a shave ready edge, if you listen close I do talk about "Tricks" in some of them..

Yes, I got that, thanks. I think, I'll do a couple more shaves leaving it untouched until the edge could benefit from a touch up.
Then I'll try to get familiar with her and offer a careful bit of 7:1 on my 8k and 3:1 and final 1:1 on the 12k. Hopefully she'll start to remember then...

Did some reading and (I think that I) understood the video, but actually getting hands on it for the first time is a different story. Thanks

Frank