Thread: I have no experience with straight razors. Need help.

Originally Posted by jackknifeh

Almost sharp isn't going to cut it. You're right. I decided to start shaving again. I've had a beard for a few years. I don't have any shaving gear any more except a couple of the disposable razors. That means I need to buy everything. For the past few years I've been chasing the ultimate sharp edge on knives with a mirror polished bevel. I've been whittling hairs for a while and am still looking for sharper. Having the challenge of sharpening a straight razor was the deal maker in deciding to use a straight razor for shaving. Another thing is shaving this way has always been intriguing and something I have respected in anyone who chooses this route. The fact that the word "safety" is seldom used in these conversations means you guys are the last thrill seekers.

Asking questions about shaving is hard because I'm so stupid in this area I don't know what to ask. The only question I've actually had about the shaving process is how to limit blood flow. I'd like to keep it to a minimum. I'm going to get the DVD I found last night in the "classifieds". As I see it and you guys have recommended several times I need to start with a shave ready razor so I'll know what a good shave feels (and sounds) like and also I need to know what to shoot for in my honing. I also I need knowledge on soap, lather, pre-shave preparation, post-shave stuff, the list goes on. I had no idea how involved this issue of removing facial hair can get. I may have days I want to let the beard grow back.

Wait! I do have one question. Being from the knife world I want to know what blade steels are used in razors. Same as knives just with a different blade shape? Carbon steel? Stainless steel? Both? Someone here asked the question "which razors hold the edge longer?" All of the answers were razors from given companies. NOT the name of the steel used. This surprised me. Do companies only use one steel? Is there a choice in blade steel like there may be a choice of handle material? I'm sure all this is covered in a thread on "how to select a razor" which I haven't read yet. How sharp a particular steel can get and how long it holds the edge are the two most important things for me. Then comes corrosion resistance. This is somewhat minor to me because we can fight corrosion with any number of products available. But, I don't scrape my face with my pocket knife so some anti-corrosion products may not be as good for a face scraping tool. I do want to know about this. Straight razors always get wet compared to most of my pocket knives which don't always get wet. Blade steel used in kitchen cutlery seems like a good comparison. I will learn.

Thanks for the help everybody.

Jack

Most Vintage razor companies were pretty secretive about their steels but basically they were Tool Steel... The new production and Custom guys use a few different ones that are available out there..


Here is a Vid I did recently about what makes up a test shave, this is a good place to start when it comes to the question of sharpness... It is made clear in the Vid and that thread that if you can't do that simple test successfully there is NO reason to hurt your face by continuing...

http://straightrazorpalace.com/video...-test-vid.html

The differences between SR honing and all other sharpening is the "smooth factor", often times you will read the "Sharp is easy, Sharp and Smooth takes a little talent"
The one other thing to keep in mind is that the Geometric Profile of the SR has to be retained, certain sharpening techniques have a tendency to frown the edge, this is not good...

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Most Vintage razor companies were pretty secretive about their steels but basically they were Tool Steel... The new production and Custom guys use a few different ones that are available out there..


Here is a Vid I did recently about what makes up a test shave, this is a good place to start when it comes to the question of sharpness... It is made clear in the Vid and that thread that if you can't do that simple test successfully there is NO reason to hurt your face by continuing...

http://straightrazorpalace.com/video...-test-vid.html

The differences between SR honing and all other sharpening is the "smooth factor", often times you will read the "Sharp is easy, Sharp and Smooth takes a little talent"
The one other thing to keep in mind is that the Geometric Profile of the SR has to be retained, certain sharpening techniques have a tendency to frown the edge, this is not good...

I think I understand what you mean by smooth. I'll explain what I think of and you tell me if I'm on the right track. When sharpening a knife, kitchen knives primarily you want a toothy edge for slicing a tomato because the micro serrations cut through the skin easily and immediately. However when the edge is smooth, no matter how sharp it is the edge will try to slide along the skin and you may need to press harder to break through the skin. I'm no chef but I understand "real" chefs hate this because it can bruise the tomato (or whatever), make the food taste bad and they will get fired from their cushy chef job. I can imagine shaving with a "toothy" edge would be like using a microscopic hacksaw blade. So, smooth is essential to keep blood inside the body and provide a comfortable shave. Please tell me I won't want to shave again right after I shave just because I enjoy it. Right now I have a 30x and 60x loupe to look at the edge. I plan to get a small microscope to connect to the pc soon. I think the one I'm looking at goes up to 400x. I'll be able to take pictures of the edge at different grit progression. I've been wanting this for knife sharpening but I think I will benefit more for razor sharpening. For knives this level of sharp is really not necessary, it's just fun. From what I have seen the razor honing is many times more delicate, requiring more skill and accuracy by the honer as well as higher grit tools of good quality. A good finishing grit for any normal pocket knife is 2k. 8k is for the knife sharpening obsessive guy (me). This is the starting point for razors and has me excited. I think I have the hones and strops I'll need but time will tell. I'm not rich and need to watch what I spend but I do love buying "fun" things and waiting for the mailman. In fact I'm waiting today for an ultra-fine ceramic stone. I may take the lawn chair and sit by the mailbox. Does anyone else do this? Maybe I'm the only one.

Jack

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Here is a Vid I did recently about what makes up a test shave, this is a good place to start when it comes to the question of sharpness... It is made clear in the Vid and that thread that if you can't do that simple test successfully there is NO reason to hurt your face by continuing...

http://straightrazorpalace.com/video...-test-vid.html

Just watched this. Great info. I am worried that enjoying watching someone (a man ) shave will end in needing therapy.

Jack

Jack

I would try and keep things simple when learning to shave and not have too elaborate a routine. To me shaving should be as simple as lather up and shave. Post shave alum block rub will tell you quickly if you have done it right. If you haven't then you know it is either your shaving/lathering technique or the blade is not sharp enough. That is just me though.

If you get that high mag PC connected microscope I can almost guarantee you will drive yourself crazy chasing a perfect edge. Personally I think it can be more of a hindrance at the start but useful later when you do start getting good edges and want to see what they look like. I will also almost bet that those good edges will look not so great under high mag of a PC microscope. Mind you I don't use one so that is just a guess.

Bob

Yes Jack you have the visual correct in the brain

A SR is basically a push cut at the beginning stages, later down the road you will learn about Scything strokes etc:

Watch the trap of using High magnification, a mirror bevel does not always mean it is a good shave in fact chasing the "look" can lead to a harsh fragile edge..

Some of the Smoothest feeling Natural finishers leave a rather hazy scratchy finish, it really does come down to your face, this is one of the reasons we tend to tell people to hang at the 8k "level" until you can get a smooth comfortable with relative ease.. Then add a high grit finisher to get the icing on the cake..

One of my favorite sayings is "Bevel Bevel Bevel 90% of the work is in the bevel set" after that it is all just fun

and here is a thread where some of the guys took my statements of the bevel set should be able to shave all in itself to task


http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...-1k-shave.html


that will give you an idea of just how sharp these SR's really are

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Yes Jack you have the visual correct in the brain

A SR is basically a push cut at the beginning stages, later down the road you will learn about Scything strokes etc:

Watch the trap of using High magnification, a mirror bevel does not always mean it is a good shave in fact chasing the "look" can lead to a harsh fragile edge..

Another reason to not use magnification is my beautiful mirror finish gets depressing when magnifiedd.

Some of the Smoothest feeling Natural finishers leave a rather hazy scratchy finish, it really does come down to your face, this is one of the reasons we tend to tell people to hang at the 8k "level" until you can get a smooth comfortable with relative ease.. Then add a high grit finisher to get the icing on the cake..

One of my favorite sayings is "Bevel Bevel Bevel 90% of the work is in the bevel set" after that it is all just fun

and here is a thread where some of the guys took my statements of the bevel set should be able to shave all in itself to task


http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...-1k-shave.html


that will give you an idea of just how sharp these SR's really are

Funny you say that 90% of the work, or I assume final result is in setting the initial bevel. This exact concept was discussed when dealing with knife edges when "chasing the mirror finish and edge". If the beginning steps aren't perfect you can't fix the issue with the final steps. You are just wasting time by getting into a hurry. One of my favorite saying is "If you don't have time to do it right the first time, you sure don't have time to do it twice".

Just got back from the mailbox and a Boker razor a friend sent me is here. It's an older one with no handle. I like making knife handles so this is really a bonus for me. The edge needs work though. I'm torn between working on it myself or sending it to get shave ready. Sending it to someone is probably the smartest thing. There is a chip in the middle of the edge. The entire edge will need to be worked on until the chip is no longer there. Then the honing will start. If I wanted to send it to someone to sharpen (hone) so it is shave ready who would that be? How much do they usually charge? It will almost break my heart to send something away to get sharpened because I hate hate hate not taking care of my own tools. But in this case it's probably wiser than messing up a good razor I have pics of it but can't post them yet. The razor is a Boker. Near the spine at the end of the razor there is the number 1402. At the rear of the blade there is a number 1892. On the side of the blade is etched the landscape of a city and under that it says "WORLD'S COLUMBIAN EXPOSITION, CHICAGO 1893". Does this mean anything to anyone regarding info on this razor? On the handle there is a tree layng on it's side then H. Boker & CO and Germany under that. Any suggestions on a handle material? I know, water proof. I love beautiful wood. There are some cheap materials I like also that look good. I'm thinking this should be pretty simple since I don't have to copy anything. All the handle needs is one pivot hole which can go anywhere near the end. I can get close enough just by looking at pictures. The razor I got from ebay has a blade thickness of 1mm at the edge. This one is .18mm thick at the edge. This is according to my caliper which is pretty accurate but I don't think it's calibrated for exact accuracy.

Jack

Guess what you guys. Another friend just offered to send me a couple different types of soap to try. One of them is a puck of mitchell's woolfat soap. I don't know the name of any other he is sending. So, it looks like all I need to get to get started is a brush. I'll be looking to Wal Mart for a cheap one to start with. The generosity of people on these forums with people of common intrests is great. Almost gives me my faith back in the human race. Maybe I will be able to help someone else in time. I have a Boker razor that needs work on the edge and soap coming. I'm pretty sure I have the honing tools I need to get started at least. The skill will be where I'm lacking for a while I'm sure. I have an 8k Shapton glass water stone (1.84 micron) to start with and strops of diamond sprays down to .25 micron on leather and balsa wood both. When I do get to the honing portion I'll try what I have and then I'll know if I need anything else. I may need a little advise about that from folks. I imagine the questions I'll have will come pretty fast after I get started.

Thanks again for everyone's help.

Jack

Send me your razor and I will hone it for you, just cover the shipping. This way you will know what a properly honed razor feels like &/or you can use it as your reference razor. I'm offering this because I still stand by my advice, learn to shave first.

Do you have a strop, just plain old leather?

Originally Posted by shooter74743

Send me your razor and I will hone it for you, just cover the shipping. This way you will know what a properly honed razor feels like &/or you can use it as your reference razor. I'm offering this because I still stand by my advice, learn to shave first.

Do you have a strop, just plain old leather?

I appreciate this offer very much. Give me your address and I'll send it to you. Right now it doesn't have a handle. I'm going to make one pretty soon. Will that affect how you hold it or cause a problem? Do you have a paypal email I can send return shipping money to? Or how should I cover the return shipping.

I have quite a few strops all mounted on wood. I have cow hide (soft leather), horse hide (hard leather), balsa wood (harder) and a 2x6" kangaroo strop. I have them treated with diamond paste or sprays and a couple other coumpound types between 28 micron and .25 micron. The kangaroo strop I don't have any compound on. It is very thin hide on an aluminum plate and is less abrasive without compoud than the .25 diamond spray. I'm pretty sure I have what I need to hone when I start but will find out anything I'm lacking soon I'm sure. I don't have a belt type. Mine are all on hard surfaces. With these strops I can put an insane edge on my knives. I'm excited now though because jumping into honing razors will probably make me laugh about every time I called a knife "razor sharp".

Thanks again,
Jack

Originally Posted by shooter74743

Send me your razor and I will hone it for you, just cover the shipping. This way you will know what a properly honed razor feels like &/or you can use it as your reference razor. I'm offering this because I still stand by my advice, learn to shave first.

Do you have a strop, just plain old leather?

I forgot. The edge has a pretty serious chip right in the center of the blade. So it doesn't need just honing. It will need quite a bit more work than that. I can take the edge down to where the chip is gone I'm sure. Do you want me to do that before I send it to you? Right now the rest of the edge is as sharp as a barely sharp pocket knife. Actually I wouldn't mind doing this and put an edge on there that I can right now. Then you can see what I can do right now and how or what needs improvement. Let me know what you want to do. If you think I may screw up the edge I'd rather not touch it.