Thread: Cutting my teeth on a Cut-Throat

Originally Posted by jeffegg2

That is really nice strop. You'll have to start really slow if you don't want to nick it up. Most suggest something simple like a Filly strop from ruprazor.com to start so as to nick that instead of your fine strop.

slow is smooth and smooth is fast. I started really slow and only made one big nick on my practice strop, and none on my nice strop that I'm using now (knock on wood).

Sounds like a great kit, you'll love straight shaving once you get over the learning curve.

I do not mean to seem callous, but if I ruin this strop I will just buy a replacement. What I mean is I would like to learn on the best gear I can afford. I am gratified that you like the strop and it gives me confidence that the stop will serve me well to keep the blade sharpened for a while. Thank you much.

Bodach

Originally Posted by nessmuck

Just remember that the leather strop is not a tool to sharpen your razor,so light pressure,just the weight of the blade, when stropping.Think of stropping as a method that just smooths out that fine sharp edge.When i started stropping i used to much pressure (because i thought i would get a sharper edge) and ended up rolling the edge!!!!Plus I would get another shave ready razor as a back-up, when you send one out for honing.Hope this helps and WELCOME ABOARD!!!!

nessmuck,

From everything I've read I'm so scared to put any pressure at all on the strop, is there any danger in not putting 'enough' pressure? By that I mean if I merely drag the blade's weight along the strop is that enough or do I need to learn the 'finesse' of just enough but not too much pressure on the stop?

This is extremely fun, but wholly frustrating at the same time. I'm sure everyone that reads this understands it wholly.

Regards,

Bodach

Good advice which you read all the time here is "just the weight of the razor" but the strop with a high draw may give you a different interaction to a strop that is icy slick. Still you need to resist the temptation to push down as opposed to pushing laterally. That is the finesse aspect. There is an amount of pressure that is appropriate & the figure may be arbitrary as a big honking 9/8 wedge will be heavier than a 3/8 trimmer but essentially the weight of the razor will do.

Also bear in mind that ruining your strop will take a toll on your edge, yes you can buy another strop but you may also need to buy another honing.

Originally Posted by Bodach

If I understand what I've ready thus far from day to day I can strop on the leather prior to shaving until it 'starts' to feel a little different or starts to pull, then I should do 25-50 strokes on the linen then the same on the leather and I should be back to 'good to go'...at least for a few months? I am so grateful that you guys are here.

Regards,

Bodach

There seem to be slightly different thoughts but I think the more common school of thought and what I use is to strop on fabric/linen followed by leather everytime you strop. If you were to think of it in terms of knives a strop (combined linen/leather) is like a steal. You use it everytime that you use the razor (knife in the example). But no matter how good you are stropping eventually your gonna need to touch the razor up, (again knife in the example). To do this some use a high grit finishing stone, a barber hone, or another strop (non-daily) coated with an abrasive, diamond powder and CrOx being the most common. A strop is only for aligning the finest edge of the razor but over time the edge will develop larger irregularities that a strop cannot fix this is when it will need honing. Like any sharp instrument it is always easiest to hone when it is just begining to tug/pull as the hone will have a smaller amount of work to do.

Originally Posted by Bodach

I do not mean to seem callous, but if I ruin this strop I will just buy a replacement. What I mean is I would like to learn on the best gear I can afford. I am gratified that you like the strop and it gives me confidence that the stop will serve me well to keep the blade sharpened for a while. Thank you much.

Bodach

No problem, it's your money. The Filly is a good quality strop to learn on, and makes a nice pasted strop when you move to your "best gear". It was sound advice when given to me, and I only passed it on to you.

Originally Posted by jeffegg2

No problem, it's your money. The Filly is a good quality strop to learn on, and makes a nice pasted strop when you move to your "best gear". It was sound advice when given to me, and I only passed it on to you.

Sounds like good advice from you that I'm failing to understand. Keep drilling it into my simple mind and I'll get it eventually.

Thanks,

Bodach

Re-reading this thread I note that you got the stainless steel version of the Dovo.

The good news is that it won't break or chip easily, as the carbon steel ones do, and it will hold an edge longer.

The bad news is that it is harden to sharpen and re-sharpen.

If you edge is just rounded over, you can probably strop it back into straightness. That's what stropping is for. Try this first. Hold the strop taut and horizontal while you strop. Use X-pattern strokes and glide the razor across the strop.

What I have found is that stropping is actually an alternative to finish honing, if you use pasted strops. I got an extra canvas strop, and but black paste (coarse) on one side and white paste (fine) on the other. My regular strop has Russian leather and another canvas(?), on which I put green paste (very fine).

Stropping on the green paste actually lightly hones, as some gray metal is visible when I wipe the blade afterwards with a tissue. The white and black pastes do more serious honing. From what I can tell, using the black/white strops is about equivalent to using 6000/12000 grit waterstones, but less efficient. It's a lot less messy, though. An alternative to black/white/green pastes for strops is 2.5 um, 1.0 um and 0.5 um diamond pastes.

My basic go/no go test is a variant of the "hanging hair test". After final stropping, I hold a hair with about 1.5" sticking out and drag it along the blade. It should lop off at least once, or the blade is too dull to use. If it lops off after a short distance (several times along the blade), the blade is sharp. If it's not sharp, repeat your process. If it is, shave with it and see if you can shave without tugging and it removes hair. If it tugs, some part of the blade is still not sharp enough (watch for a slight warp in the blade which can prevent uniform honing). If it glides on your face but doesn't appear to shave hair, you probably have a rounded edge ("wire-edge").

Originally Posted by Alethephant

What I have found is that stropping is actually an alternative to finish honing, if you use pasted strops. I got an extra canvas strop, and but black paste (coarse) on one side and white paste (fine) on the other. My regular strop has Russian leather and another canvas(?), on which I put green paste (very fine).

This is very generic information. Can you be more specific about these different coloured pastes you advise ? Colour is no indication of grit size

I use the standard molded bars sold to use with grinding and buffing wheels. They are sold by color. Black = emery, White = calcite, Green = Cr2O3.

If you want grit sizes, I gave you the equivalent particular sizes for diamond pastes. Cr2O3 is generally considered about 0.3 um, so it's close to the 0.5 um diamond paste I mentioned.

Grit sizes are somewhat garbled in the trade.

American grit is based on passing through a mesh. The mean particle size is about 1/3 of the mesh size. So a 1000 American grit stone = mesh size of 0.001" ~ 8.5 um.

I don't know how the Japanese determine their grit sizes, but this scale is typically what people use when talking about honing. 1200 American grit ~ 5000 Japanese ~ 5 um. 12000 Japanese grit ~ 1-2 um.

Grit isn't the whole answer, because particles can stay sharp or break up or get smoother. So the same grit with different materials can grind differently. That's why jeweller's rouge (Fe2O3) is not used on steel: It breaks down quickly.

I use the bars because it's easy to rub them on the strop to get the abrasive in. Diamond pastes are oil based, so it's trickier to get even distribution. You can buy cream pastes in tubes from Dovo and other suppliers: They're color coded for grit size too.

What you really want is a couple stages of grit that starts where a finish stone would be (say 2-5 um) and ends up with a polish would be (0.3-0.5 um). The leather strop is then a very fine grit (0.1 um) and straightener. Some metal comes off even on the leather, as you will find it gets dirty over time with metal dust.

The advantage of pasted strops is that you don't need stones and other paraphenalia to do touch up work. You can keep all of the strops on the same hook.

Stones are necessary for setting bevels (medium to fine grit, 10-30 um) and other repair work. You get a lot faster action with honing (edge leading) than with stropping (edge trailing).

Originally Posted by Alethephant

I use the standard molded bars sold to use with grinding and buffing wheels. They are sold by color. Black = emery, White = calcite, Green = Cr2O3.

You can buy cream pastes in tubes from Dovo and other suppliers: They're color coded for grit size too.

My point exactly. The Dovo color system is completely different to the molded bars you use ie the Dovo green is coarser than the black.