Thread: Yet another convert

'Morning all. As the title of the thread suggests, I'm another straight razor convert.

Due to the multiple irritations of expense, inefficacy, and a certain resentment at being indirectly treated like a child by the "safety" razor industry, I'd been wanting to make the leap from plastic to steel for years. I just never really had the opportunity until recently. However, I came into a little extra cash at exactly the same time that an Art of Shaving location opened up at the Mall of America, which is five minutes from where I live. So, with the chips having fallen into place, I made the leap.

The very, very good gents at the Art of Shaving store were incredibly nice, very knowledgeable, and extremely patient as I asked dumb question after dumb question. They gave me a run-down of razor anatomy and proper techniques, and eventually set me up with a really nice Thiers-Issard steel-handled hollow-ground straight, strop, and some nice lotion samples.

And man alive, do I wish I'd done this years ago. After ages of paying way too much for gimmicky cartridge shaves that promised superior results and delivered disappointment, I know know what a REAL shave is. For the first time in my adult life, I don't feel like I need a shave IMMEDIATELY AFTER I FINISH SHAVING. Needless to say, I'm never looking back.

That's not to say that there hasn't been a stumble or two. After a surprisingly straightforward initial shave, I may have been a little careless on shave #2 a few days later, as I did open up a nice slice right at the neck/chin/ear junction. Nothing serious, obviously...but just ugly and bloody enough to let me know I may have been rushing my progress a little. And certainly more than enough to send the message that I needed to slow down and be a bit more careful. Needless to say, I learned my lesson, and shave #3 was even better than the first two. Baby-tush has nothing on my face, and I'm overjoyed at the results.

That said, I do have a few questions...Things I forgot to ask at the Shavatorium, and that a cursory search of these forums and other resources haven't quite cleared up for me as of yet. I'm hoping I didn't just miss the answers elsewhere, and I apologize in advance if these are newbie questions you've answered a thousand times over.

#1) Stropping. There is a wealth of information on the how-to, so I feel like I've got a pretty good grasp. But the one thing I don't seem to see addressed anywhere is the "when" and/or "how often." Most beginner guides seem to agree that a brand-new, well-honed razor should not need to be stropped for some time after initial purchase. How will I know when it needs it? Is it a time period, or a rough ballpark number of shaves? I mean, I guess "when it stops working well" is probably a good indicator, but I'd rather it not get to that point. I want to take care of my equipment.

Plus, I'm still not sure of the definitive answer regarding the yellow paste vs. hand-oil argument, wood vs. leather, strop prior to shave vs. afterward, and what the hell the linen side is really used for, exactly. If it helps, my strop is of the medium-length swiveling leather/linen variety, but I'm willing to branch out a bit if need be.

#2) Shaving with VS. against the grain. During the years I used cartridges, in order to get anything even CLOSE to the shave I was looking for, I more or less had to go over most areas twice - First with, then against the grain. I guess my face got used to this, because it's never produced any irritation. And when I say none, I don't mean "not much," or "very little"... I mean none. I'm lucky, there. Because I always pressed way too hard to compensate for blades hiding behind wires, encumbered by lubricant strips, and set so deep into plastic that they never came close to ever touching my actual skin. Ugh.

So, I've begun repeating this practice with the straight, and so far, the results are the same: I'm using a much lighter touch, obviously...But the second-pass shave is a lot closer, and there's no irritation to speak of. I guess I'm just wondering what the school of thought is on this. Is it normal, or am I an unusual case? Am I okay to keep this up, or should I be "re-training" my skin somehow, now that I'm doing things a lot more properly?

#3) Soap. In one of the only breaks with tradition, I did NOT choose to go the mug-brush-and-soap route for my conditioner/lubricant. Reason being, my wife used to work for the cosmetics company Lush years ago, and I fell in love with their shaving lotion, "Razorantium." It's full of facial conditioners, emollients and natural ingredients; and in terms of stubble-softening, face-feel and closeness, it's the only shave lotion I ever found to be worth a damn when using cartridges. At least, for me. I know it's not for everyone (and looking around, I've even seen a thread or two here about it, with varying opinions) but so far, it's a combination that really seems to be working.

Honestly, though...what am I depriving myself of by forgoing the brush and mug, besides an experience? Has anyone used both, and formulated an opinion? I know so much is down to personal preference, and "what works for me," but do I really NEED to still buy the badger brush, mug and soap if the current combo seems to be working? Dumb question, probably, but I still wonder what I might be missing out on.

#4) Resting. I'm discovering that I'm pretty lucky, in that when using the straight, I really only need to shave every 3-4 days. By nightfall on the 4th day, I'm usually looking at a level of stubble equal to what I used to see 24 hrs. after a cartridge shave, especially between chin and neck. Maybe it's that I'm getting that much closer, or maybe it's that the lotion softens that well...But either way, I'm discovering that while I may get stubble that's as THICK as always, it doesn't seem to need removal as often. I'm okay with this, as you can well imagine.

However, I've seen a lot of conflicting reports as far as how often a razor should "rest" between shaves in order to not dull or damage from over-use. Some sources say 24-48 hours, others say as much as a week. Obviously, I want to do this right, and take care of my gear, so I guess I'm wondering about others' experiences. I'm sure it also has a lot to do with the environment the razor is kept in, how often it's stropped, etc. If it helps, I have shaved a total of three times to date, and I keep the razor in a dry location after wiping it down post-use. I also have no idea if I should be oiling anything, or if just keeping the blade and handle dry inside and out is sufficient to preserve the steel and avoid rust.

*************

I apologize in advance for all of this, but I really did search the forums, and was unable to really find much in the way of answers to these questions. It's possible that I may have been doing it wrong or looking in the wrong places being as I'm pretty green to this whole world, so I hope I'm not breaching any etiquette, here. I just really want to do this right, so I figured I'd rely on the wisdom of those who came before me as I embark on my rewarding little voyage of self-discovery.

In any case, thanks.

Welcome to SRP! As I'm new here, as well as a new convert to straight razor shaving, I cant do much to help you out on your questions, but I also am curious to hear the answers if anyone can help out.

In regards to number 4, I found this: http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...time-rest.html

Seems like if you only need to shave every few days you should be all fine and dandy. I'm curious if it is then beneficial to strop right after shaving while the blade is "malleable" (not really, but, you know what I mean given the context). I know lots of guys strop before and after shaving, which I found weird, but given this, It does make some sense.

Welcome to the forum! I`m not an expert Straight shaver, I just got my first BBS with a Straight today actually after practicing for quite some time, so I will let other experienced members answer most of your questions.

But at least for me a large part of the whole wet shaving experience is a fine Badger brush, wonderful soaps and creams, and a scuttle to make warm lather in. I`m not wet shaving just because I get a much better shave than before, but also because I low using and looking at my brushes, scuttles and wary between soaps and creams whenever I want. And the true, luxury feeling when a Silvertip brush hit your face with hot lather, wow. Just my opinion but a must for me.

Welcome to SRP. Glad to hear you still have your earlobe. To find some answers to your questions, one of the best areas of this forum to start reading is the WIKI. One of the best threads to read if you have not already, is from Lynn in the beginner section titled, "First Straight Shave- Read First."

To start with, I agree with not stropping a freashly honed razor for at least the first shave with it. The likelyhood of damaging the edge due to improper stropping technique is very high. Stropping maintains the edge and I would guess that 99% of us strop their razor just before they shave.

Question 2: For me, I shave WTG and XTG on my face, and WTH & ATG on my neck. There are no set rules, just whatever works for you and your whiskers.

Question 3: Again, whatever works for you. Though the the process of making a great lather from a soap/cream and applying it with a brush is very relaxing. As you probably have guessed already, shaving with a straight razor is not for someone in a hurry. In the future, you may want to sample various soaps and creams, and investing in an inexpensive brush maybe something you might want to consider.


Question 4: When I first started shaving with a straight razor I only had one and I stropped it and used it everyday. I did take an occassional day off from shaving on the weekends. So as far as resting goes, I did not observe any ill effects from using the one razor everyday. Now that I have been at this for awhile, I might have a few more razors so I use a different one each day.

I hope my insight helps you out and I"m sure other more experienced members will offer their advice as well. Keep us posted and enjoy your new hobby.

I've only been at this for 4 months, but I think I can offer some basic answers.

Originally Posted by UglyShirts

#1) Stropping. There is a wealth of information on the how-to, so I feel like I've got a pretty good grasp. But the one thing I don't seem to see addressed anywhere is the "when" and/or "how often." Most beginner guides seem to agree that a brand-new, well-honed razor should not need to be stropped for some time after initial purchase. How will I know when it needs it? Is it a time period, or a rough ballpark number of shaves? I mean, I guess "when it stops working well" is probably a good indicator, but I'd rather it not get to that point. I want to take care of my equipment.

A razor should be stropped before every shave. I myself go 30 on the canvas, 60 on the leather. Most people also strop just after the shave to remove any micro gunk on the edge of the razor. I do 15 on the canvas, 15 on the leather.

Plus, I'm still not sure of the definitive answer regarding the yellow paste vs. hand-oil argument, wood vs. leather, strop prior to shave vs. afterward, and what the hell the linen side is really used for, exactly. If it helps, my strop is of the medium-length swiveling leather/linen variety, but I'm willing to branch out a bit if need be.

Paste is a light abrasive to keen up the edge a little when stropping isn't quite cutting it. Think of it as a extremely light polishing. The stropping itself is in actuality burnishing the edge to smooth it out, making it fit to put to face.

More info on stropping

#2) Shaving with VS. against the grain. During the years I used cartridges, in order to get anything even CLOSE to the shave I was looking for, I more or less had to go over most areas twice - First with, then against the grain. I guess my face got used to this, because it's never produced any irritation. And when I say none, I don't mean "not much," or "very little"... I mean none. I'm lucky, there. Because I always pressed way too hard to compensate for blades hiding behind wires, encumbered by lubricant strips, and set so deep into plastic that they never came close to ever touching my actual skin. Ugh.

So, I've begun repeating this practice with the straight, and so far, the results are the same: I'm using a much lighter touch, obviously...But the second-pass shave is a lot closer, and there's no irritation to speak of. I guess I'm just wondering what the school of thought is on this. Is it normal, or am I an unusual case? Am I okay to keep this up, or should I be "re-training" my skin somehow, now that I'm doing things a lot more properly?

Multiple passes will always give you a better result, so that it totally normal. See here for more info on different passes.
Shaving passes - Straight Razor Place Wiki

#3) Soap. In one of the only breaks with tradition, I did NOT choose to go the mug-brush-and-soap route for my conditioner/lubricant. Reason being, my wife used to work for the cosmetics company Lush years ago, and I fell in love with their shaving lotion, "Razorantium." It's full of facial conditioners, emollients and natural ingredients; and in terms of stubble-softening, face-feel and closeness, it's the only shave lotion I ever found to be worth a damn when using cartridges. At least, for me. I know it's not for everyone (and looking around, I've even seen a thread or two here about it, with varying opinions) but so far, it's a combination that really seems to be working.

Honestly, though...what am I depriving myself of by forgoing the brush and mug, besides an experience? Has anyone used both, and formulated an opinion? I know so much is down to personal preference, and "what works for me," but do I really NEED to still buy the badger brush, mug and soap if the current combo seems to be working? Dumb question, probably, but I still wonder what I might be missing out on.

Most feel that lathering with a brush is one of the key factors in getting a good shave. Even for people who don't use a straight razor have found that switching from hand applied foam to brush applied lather makes a significant difference in quality of shave. You don't need to spend an arm an a leg either. I got a tweezerman badger brush for 15 bucks. That said, if you feel you are getting quality shaves as is, don't sweat not using a brush. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, right? I'd say its worth trying, but you are under no obligation to use a brush.

#4) Resting. I'm discovering that I'm pretty lucky, in that when using the straight, I really only need to shave every 3-4 days. By nightfall on the 4th day, I'm usually looking at a level of stubble equal to what I used to see 24 hrs. after a cartridge shave, especially between chin and neck. Maybe it's that I'm getting that much closer, or maybe it's that the lotion softens that well...But either way, I'm discovering that while I may get stubble that's as THICK as always, it doesn't seem to need removal as often. I'm okay with this, as you can well imagine.

However, I've seen a lot of conflicting reports as far as how often a razor should "rest" between shaves in order to not dull or damage from over-use. Some sources say 24-48 hours, others say as much as a week. Obviously, I want to do this right, and take care of my gear, so I guess I'm wondering about others' experiences. I'm sure it also has a lot to do with the environment the razor is kept in, how often it's stropped, etc. If it helps, I have shaved a total of three times to date, and I keep the razor in a dry location after wiping it down post-use. I also have no idea if I should be oiling anything, or if just keeping the blade and handle dry inside and out is sufficient to preserve the steel and avoid rust.

I don't think a razor needs to rest at all. Barbers offered quality shaves to multiple people through out the day without having a huge stock so that their razors could rest. As for maintanance, I strop it on a towel when I'm done to remove most of the water, then I do my 15/15 on my linen/leather. Then I store it in the bedroom, away from the moisture ridden bathroom. Some people oil their razors to keep water marks from developing, but that is really a cosmetic thing. As long as you keep your edge dry, the razor will keep shaving fine.

People also periodically use a pasted strop to touch up the edge as mentioned before, and a barber's hone when the pasted strop isn't cutting it. Unless you really damage the edge by hitting it on the faucet, or your girlfriend dropping it, it shouldn't need to have serious honing done.

I apologize in advance for all of this, but I really did search the forums, and was unable to really find much in the way of answers to these questions. It's possible that I may have been doing it wrong or looking in the wrong places being as I'm pretty green to this whole world, so I hope I'm not breaching any etiquette, here. I just really want to do this right, so I figured I'd rely on the wisdom of those who came before me as I embark on my rewarding little voyage of self-discovery.

In any case, thanks.

Hey, we guys here love straight razor shaving, and love talking about it, so no need to apologize! Ask all you want, and you will be amazed at the depth of knowledge some of these guys have here.

Anyway, it sounds like you are getting good shaves, and really that is what it is all about.

welcome and thanks for the info on the specialized shave cream you use

Hello, UglyShirts:

Welcome to Straight Razor Place.

Here are some random thoughts:

1. I don't know what brand of razor you have, although I can assume it's produced by Dovo, a fine brand. To my knowledge, The Art Of Shaving razors have a factory edge only. Many of the gentlemen here are not satisfied with the factory edge and prefer their new razor further honed by a professional. Perhaps your razor is sharp enough for you, I don't know. If you don't think so, do sent it out to be honed by a professional. You'll find names in the Member Services here.

2. Most agree that your daily strop should not be pasted. If using pastes, however, I suggest acquiring a second strop and dedicating it as a pasted strop.

3. Shave in multiple passes. The concept of multiple passes is beard reduction: each pass further reduced the beard. As a general rule, many gentlemen here shave in two or three passes. General rule, mind you. Here you will need to experiment with what works for you.

4. Another general rule covers the direction in which you shave. As a general rule — here we go again — many gentlemen shave with the grain, across the grain and against the grain. General rule, I emphasize. Here, too, you must experiment to see what works best for you.

5. The brush exfoliates the skin and helps sets the beard. It also contributes to one of the great pleasures of wet shaving. I suggest a brush with a good lather soap or cream.

6. Arguments abound on resting the razor 24 hours or 48. In your case, since you shave every three or four days, you need not get into that argument. Many gentlemen here have had one razor and shaved every day. Here, too, you be the judge. In your case, all you need is really one razor, although it is always nice to have another one just in case one razor has to be sent out for honing.

7. The general rules about stropping are this: Strop before every shave and after. The number of strokes vary with each shaver. For me, before the shave, I use 25 strokes (up and down is one stroke) on canvas or fabric and 75 strokes on the leather. Sometimes I vary the number, depending on the razor — those with the harder steel usually receive more strokes. After the shave, as more of a cleaning measure, I do 15 strokes on the canvas or fabric and 25 on leather.

8. Make sure you razor is completely dry, because carbon steel can rust quickly. Also try not to get your razor scales wet during the shave. As a rule, I don't rinse the razor during the shave; rather use a type of wash cloth to wipe off the blade. The rinsing comes at the end.

9. I also use a light coat of camellia oil on the blade and the shank after the cleanup. I have a humid bathroom area and more than one razor; therefore, it is wise to use the oil to further prevent the razor from rusting.

10. Finally, in the coming months you will continue to experiment with various methods of shaving. In time you will hone your skill with the straight razor. Your personal technique will develop from your skill.

Read and study as much as you can. Watch as many shaving, lather-making and stropping videos as you can. Beyond that, please ask questions.

Regards,
Obie

A thousand thanks to everyone for all of the fantastic advice!

Originally Posted by Obie

1. I don't know what brand of razor you have, although I can assume it's produced by Dovo, a fine brand.

Sorry; I should have been clearer...I sort of buried it up there amid a big, ugly wall of text. My razor is a Thiers-Issard 5/8 with matching steel scales.

Originally Posted by Obie

To my knowledge, The Art Of Shaving razors have a factory edge only. Many of the gentlemen here are not satisfied with the factory edge and prefer their new razor further honed by a professional. Perhaps your razor is sharp enough for you, I don't know.

So far so good, I guess. Maybe it's just that after so many years of cartridge shaving, even a factory edge is producing superior results. I suppose that stands to reason. In either case, I'm still quite happy with the shave I'm currently getting. My most recent shave was last night around 9:30 PM (about 20 hours ago, give or take), and I'm barely feeling the faintest hint of stubble as I reach up to gauge today's beard-progress.

Originally Posted by Obie

If you don't think so, do sent it out to be honed by a professional. You'll find names in the Member Services here.

In the event that I start seeing a decline that the strop can't correct, I'll certainly look to this community for an experienced honing expert. Daily maintenance, no sweat. But I think I'll probably develop a habit of trusting any heavy lifting that needs doing to someone with a great deal more experience than I.

Originally Posted by Obie

Most agree that your daily strop should not be pasted. If using pastes, however, I suggest acquiring a second strop and dedicating it as a pasted strop.

I'll certainly do that. When it comes to the pasted strop, however...Will the same style of strop do, or should I be looking at wood, or heavier-duty leather to compensate for the extra material I'll be applying to the surface?

Originally Posted by Obie

The brush exfoliates the skin and helps sets the beard. It also contributes to one of the great pleasures of wet shaving. I suggest a brush with a good lather soap or cream.

Thank you. I think, based on the recommendation of all, I'll likely be picking up a mug/brush/soap combo in the relatively near future. The lotion I'm using seems to be working fine for me, but it certainly seems as though I could benefit from at least knowing the difference. I'm certainly open to the idea of changing up any aspect of my routine in the event that it will work better, or add to the overall experience.

That said, if anyone is ever interested in doing the same in the other direction, I do recommend the Razorantium from Lush based on my personal (albeit limited) experience. As with most things, I'm sure it has much to do with how your skin reacts, but I've found that I really dig the stuff. So if you're ever looking for a slight change of pace, It might be worth giving it a go. Especially if, like me, you maintain some beard, and only sculpt away what you don't want. The fact that it's a lotion more so than a foaming cream allows for some pretty nice, clean lines due to being able to clearly see the edges of what you want to keep.

Originally Posted by Obie

Arguments abound on resting the razor 24 hours or 48. In your case, since you shave every three or four days, you need not get into that argument. Many gentlemen here have had one razor and shaved every day. Here, too, you be the judge. In your case, all you need is really one razor, although it is always nice to have another one just in case one razor has to be sent out for honing.

I do appreciate the expert advice and opinions. As long as I'm giving the blade a chance to return to where it was, that's really what I'm most concerned about

Originally Posted by Obie

The general rules about stropping are this: Strop before every shave and after. The number of strokes vary with each shaver. For me, before the shave, I use 25 strokes (up and down is one stroke) on canvas or fabric and 75 strokes on the leather. Sometimes I vary the number, depending on the razor — those with the harder steel usually receive more strokes. After the shave, as more of a cleaning measure, I do 15 strokes on the canvas or fabric and 25 on leather.

Great, thank you. Just for the sake of clarifying in my own mind, should I be doing that already? As in, on the three-shaves-in blade? I don't want to overdo it on such a new edge, but of course, if that's what it takes to KEEP it "new," I'll gladly start. It's just that the literature I got says that a new blade should only be stropped after "several" uses, but of course, that could be as many as a dozen, or as few as the three I've gotten to.

Originally Posted by Obie

Make sure you razor is completely dry, because carbon steel can rust quickly. Also try not to get your razor scales wet during the shave. As a rule, I don't rinse the razor during the shave; rather use a type of wash cloth to wipe off the blade. The rinsing comes at the end.

I've been sort of ridiculous about this, actually. I must wipe that thing off, to the point where I'm even threading tissue through the scales, for at least 10 minutes after I'm finished with it. Rust be damned!

Originally Posted by Obie

I also use a light coat of camellia oil on the blade and the shank after the cleanup. I have a humid bathroom area and more than one razor; therefore, it is wise to use the oil to further prevent the razor from rusting.

I wondered about this, too. I'll have to look up where to find some of that. Somewhere else, I read that most any blade-oil will suffice, including the little squeeze-vial of lubricant that comes with an electric trimmer. That didn't seem right to me, so I figured I'd better ask.

Thanks again to everyone for the warm welcome and the sage advice, and for not making me feel like a greenhorn for asking such basic things. It's clear I came to the right community with my questions.

Originally Posted by UglyShirts

A thousand thanks to everyone for all of the fantastic advice!

[You are Very welcome.]

I'll certainly do that. When it comes to the pasted strop, however...Will the same style of strop do, or should I be looking at wood, or heavier-duty leather to compensate for the extra material I'll be applying to the surface?

[I am not sure what type and brand of strop you have. My pasted strops are inexpensive.]

Great, thank you. Just for the sake of clarifying in my own mind, should I be doing that already? As in, on the three-shaves-in blade? I don't want to overdo it on such a new edge, but of course, if that's what it takes to KEEP it "new," I'll gladly start. It's just that the literature I got says that a new blade should only be stropped after "several" uses, but of course, that could be as many as a dozen, or as few as the three I've gotten to.

[Strop before and after the shave starting now.]

I wondered about this, too. I'll have to look up where to find some of that. Somewhere else, I read that most any blade-oil will suffice, including the little squeeze-vial of lubricant that comes with an electric trimmer. That didn't seem right to me, so I figured I'd better ask.

[I use camellia oil obtained from Straight Razor Designs.]

Regards,
Obie