Thread: Hello and thanks, very helpful site Jeff McCoy Middletown, OH

Have to start somewhere. Can't shave with it now. Was thinking of getting a feather straight just to see what a sharp razor shaves like.

I hear where you're coming from mate. I was at the same spot you are right now soon after I started out. Maybe my head space was worse though,as I was willing to destroy the razor in the process of honing it (No SRP forum in those days. I was alone in the world! ). Apart from buying a hone that was incorrectly marked, and that made out like the 3k side wa the 8k side and vice versa, I didn't do too bad. I did better once it was pointed out to me that the hone was incorrectly marked. Now I'm no expert, but here goes:

Just follow the basics; use no pressure except what you need to keep the razor flat on the hone, spine and edge in contact equally. I don't use tape, but that's my own preference. Make sure your hones are perfectly lapped first before you use them. A 4/8 combo (I have a 3/8 combo, it makes very little difference), and a 12k or similar for finishing. Finishing on 8k is fine, but a smoother shave is had from the higher grades obviously, followed by a good stropping on linen then leather.
Remember, the marker pen is your friend. Put a bit of permanant marker onling the flat of the razor along the edge (be gentle doing it), do a few passs on the hone and see where your at with pen marks. You'll see where the blade is contacting and where it isn't and this will give you something to work with on deciding which stroke will work best for that side of the razor. Usually a combination of strokes are better.

Honing isn't hard to do, what's hard about honing is doing it well. Then you find you've acquired another razor, that has different idiosycrosies to the edge, and you start the honing learning curve all over again.


Mick

Thanks
I certainly have a long way to go.
When trying to shave with this razor I'm doing ok with strokes, not cutting hardly at all and leaves most beard intact. Lots of razor burn.
Just anxious to see how a sharp razor cuts. Will a well sharpened razor move through a medium beard smooth and easy using slow light pressure or do they drag more than DE.
Also it seams from all I've read, the edge (once there) needs a lot of care not to put torsional load even when shaving as the edge deforms easily. Very light touch?
Same with hone or strop.
Just a bit of quick humor, good thing razor is dull. Slight bump on ear lobe when using and only slight nick. At first it felt like it might be worse, seemed like it hit hard. Lucky wake up call.

When you're just starting out, You could be using the sharpest cut-throat razor in the world and still not have a good shave, due solely to bad technique (Not saying your technique is bad, but I think it's part of the issue). A well sharpened razor, with a light touch, should move smoothly throughout the shave. If it's dragging, there is a problem, or a few combined factors creating a problem. One of those factors is technique, which is why so many people will recommend that a razor be Pro honed from the start, because then the razor cannot be to blame, removing one factor (the razor) and leaving you with the other factors (Prep and Technique). I ended up learning to hone at the same time I was learning to shave. Not the best of ways to go, but I did learn how to shave with a not so smooth edge (mistakenly shaving off 3k edge instead of 8k).
The edge of a razor is thin and delicate, yes, but with normal pressure i.e none, both honing and shaving as well as stropping, your edge will be just fine. I've never really put the feel of a DE edge compared to an Open edge to the test. I might have to try that tomorrow. I'll even put a fresh blade in the DE to do it, since I was going to put a new blade in the DE anyway . I'll do a half and half shave and report back tomorrow on that one.

You gotta watch them ear lobes, I cut both mine twice each. I was a bit of a slow learner in that respect.


Mick

As others have may have mentioned it is better to start learning to hone on an inexpensive razor or to keep the spine taped. it takes a while to know the feel between too much pressure, just right and not enough pressure when it comes to honing... that is where the art it.

however, as you are determined to hone your new T-I yourself start with an 8k or even better a finishing hone. the factory edge on a T-I is often ok, provide the blade is not warped, so you will first want to try the least aggressive method.

for the price of the norton and a finisher you can have your razor honed by a pro 4 or 5 times... which should be a couple of years, just saying.

enjoy,
jim

Well, time to check in with my report on the feel of DE vs CT. The feel of the DE was that of weight that was only noticable after I had put the cut-throat to the opposite side to complete the first pass. The CT felt very toy like due to it's lightweight. This is by no means scientific as different DE's will feel different as would different CT's, so it's just a generalisation of the overall feel. Having said that, the weight of the DE is what drives it to shave like it does, which is quite well in fact where as the CT was barely felt against the face at all and for the most part did a better job of the shave than the DE. I'll explain that now. Each persons face is different as we know, and hair growth/direction varies. For me the hair direction on the sides of my neck is ESE/WSW direction except on the adams apple, which is a whirlpool. Shaving by the standard pattern of WTG N to S, followed by the ATG of S to N the CT does a better job all 'round, but it's only just noticable. The difference comes in to play if I choose to use hair growth direction as my guide to WTG/ATG. The smaller more manourverable (spel?) blade of the DE can go places that are awkward for the CT, but these are fairly small areas as I can do a great deal with the CT and the job is always a smoother finish where I can do this. However, if I couldn't do it with either blade, it would still have the appearance of smooth if not the ATG feel of it to touch.
But I've digressed, I did feel by comparison, that there was a small patch of about a quarter inch sq on the corner of my jaw that I had some noticable tugging with the CT. I put this down to poor technique though as it was a real struggle with regards to angles on this small sharp curve, which goes to show I've still got a few things to learn with regards to technique and stretching. It might also just be that side with the CT as well. I might be better doing the other side in that patch.

The overall result was that I felt the DE, more than I felt the CT, with the CT doing a better job wherever it went. The DE could go more places at odd angles that the longer blade of the CT found awkward. At first I had the illusion of the CT not doing as good a job/tugging more than the DE, but concentrating on the shave I felt this was due to the DE being relatively quiet to use, compared to the hollow ground edge of my CT, that was like standing in front of the speakers at a rock concert in comparison.
Torsional flexing of the edge would be a non factor or minimal for the CT due to the light touch used during shaving. I would imagine you would have more damage done to the DE blade if it were used in a similar way to a CT with the same weight applied to it, that it gets from the DE body. As the DE blade in normal use is supported by the top cap and body of the DE with minimal exposure (I used a Slant edged razor with more edge exposure by the way), I would see little issue with torsional flex there as well. More than with a CT though.
To sum up: I got a majority better shave with a hollow ground CT with less issue regards the feel of the shave, than I did with a DE that felt heavier against my skin. The DE I knew was shaving me. The CT I didn't believe was shaving me, due to hardly being felt at all.
All this is just my own thoughts and experience on the subject. Skill levels, facial features, hair growth patterns etc. will make the experience different for other people.


Mick

Mick
I got my 4/8/12k stones today, green chrome oxide, piece of strop leather. Spent hours sanding stones on wet/dry sand paper on glass with Pencil marks to guide to get flat. Got them pretty good but could be a little better.
Now for the good news, it shaves without dragging and don't feel razor burn. Used the marker like you said, helped a lot. Used 4/8/12k then co and stropped. Edge is very shinny.
Before only evidence razor was cutting anything was very little powder like skin and whiskers but face was still rough. Cut my self a little but whiskers rinse off blade and look like what I get with de in the sink bowl.
It looks like if I can get the stones real good the blade won't be so hard to hone when needed.
Haven't got it to do the HHT, but if I hold a piece of hair in my thumb/finger and go straight down onto blade about quarter inch away from my thumb it cuts straight through.
I will need to find some cheep blades to practice on, looks like that would help get the stones worn in.
Only shaved left check and top of my head, again no burn. The burn before was killing me trying to use the blade and figure out if it was dull or technique.
Well I can say it was dull from factory, dull was good for not cutting me so easy, now flat, slow, and light and learn to shave.
It cuts now, hair and skin. Ha ha

Well it sounds like good news at last then mate. Glad to hear you're on the way to shaving nirvana . If you think those stones could be better, then I recommend you get them better. It's hard work, I know, because I did it the same way as you, but it is worth it.
Don't worry over much about the HHT, it's how it feels during and after the shave that is important! I'm glad to hear that it is all starting to come together for you mate. Take your time and get comfortable patch by patch with the shaves and you'll be ditching the DE before you know it...Well don't ditch the DE because they're good to shave with too .
Don't forget that we're all here for you if you have any problems or questions.


Mick

Welcome from fellow noob.

How are you doing with your shaving, are you using a ct.
You anywhere near the Cincinnati area? Would like to find some guys in the area that might like to get together and share shaving/ sharpening techniques.