Thread: Lather going dry on my face

Given the importance of this subject, I will once again, violate my "policy" of not posting more than once per thread. I think that we have made a lot of progress in determining the extent and applicability of the words expressed here. First, it should be recognized that this thread is about lather that could be overly dry and not really much on the effects of glycerin (glycerol) on the skin. In that regard, it should be noted that the benefits of adding glycerol to the lather are not only concentration dependent but also soap/cream (context) dependent with some products benefiting more than others from this practice. It should also be stressed that adding more glycerin than needed, and often there is no real need to do this, could potentially be deleterious, that is, past a certain point, glycerin will actually have a negative effect on the lather. Given the amounts of soap and/or cream that are used in a typical shave, a few drops should be enough to achieve the desired effects. However, people should experiment with the amount of glycerin that gives them the best results keeping in mind that these suggested quantities are only a starting point. In the end, if your lather is not good enough, you just discard it and start over again .

As to whether glycerin can dry out your skin, it most certainly can. In fact, glycerol is used to produce absolute alcohol, which means that it can trap a lot of water, about 20% in weight overtime from air. Obviously as Robert correctly points out, we are talking about undiluted glycerin, which is what I was concerned with in a thread potentially dealing with dry lather. If your glycerin is diluted, the risks of drying out the skin are certainly minimized. In simple words: if the glycerin is applied with enough water to the skin, it will carry it and help retain some of this water in the outter layer of the skin but undiluted, it will certainly grab it from your skin leading to dryness.

Not too long ago, a person decided to incorporate glycerin in his pre-shave routine inspired by another post dealing with uberlather making. Needless to say, this person experienced first hand some of the adverse effects of the indiscriminate use of pure glycerin, see this: http://straightrazorpalace.com/pre-s...shave-oil.html

Whether glycerin or glycerol is beneficial for the skin has been been the subject of extensive research, and rightfully so. I came across a good review article on the subject that summarizes the findings, please only reed this if you are a geek like me :

Br J Dermatol. 2008 Jul;159(1):23-34. Epub 2008 Jul 1.
Glycerol and the skin: holistic approach to its origin and functions.

Fluhr JW, Darlenski R, Surber C.
Bioskin, Seydelstr. 18, 10117 Berlin, Germany. joachim.fluhr@bioskin.de


I will not post the direct link to the article due to copyright infringement issues.


The bottom line is the glycerol (diluted) seems to be beneficial when applied to the skin in more ways than we have discussed here but again, these benefits are concentration and context dependent, see the review article or inquire directly for more geek talk . Also, there are three distinct properties that can promote moisturization of the outter layer of the skin: humectation, occlussion and lubrication; clearly glycerin does not provide all of them and hence, good mosturizers require a more complex formulation.


I am very happy that you guys have taken the time and effort of reading about the use of glycerol in shaving products and I offer my help to clarify the facts and myths about its use. I suggest that we move on and continue to help the original poster solve his problem.


Al raz.

Originally Posted by BladeRunner001

1. Glycerin: I squirt ~1ml of it in the bowl with the creme. I whip up the lather and viola...not much difference in looks, but the glycerin, being a natural emollient, will keep the moisture in the lather longer.

+1.

I find it easiest to keep an eyedropper bottle by the sink. A couple of drops from the eyedropper and voila, rich uberlather that takes a long time to dry.

Thank you Al

vthomlinson: Al is right and I think we are all saying the same thing.

If I may, let me summarize this for you:

1. Don't use pure glycerin...it will suck moisture from the closest place it can...in the absence of water, it may be your cells.

2. Experiment with different amount of glycerin with different cremes/soaps...these products will have very differing glycerin content and as such, 1 or 2 drops in one may not necessarily be the "ideal" amount in another. This needs to be empirically determined by you with your favorite cremes/soaps.

3. A corollary to point #2 is that your skin also plays a deciding factor in how much glycerin, if any will be needed...e.g., 1-2 drops may be OK for me, but may require 4-5 for you. The amount will not only depend on creme/soap but also the hydration level of your skin.


Just a tidbit about biochemistry (to put things in perspective);
Very basic view - Glycerin is part of our everyday biology/metabolism...mono-, di- and triglycerides have glycerin as their backbone. When your cells need the fat components, they will break down the ester bonds (linking the glycerin to the fats) and use them...but, free glycerin will rarely stick around and will be catabolized/metabolized almost immediately to other products (e.g., G3P - Glyceraldehyde 3 Phosphate, etc...). If glycerin stuck around inside cells too long, it would rob them of the water needed to function properly...therefore, cells have evolved to take care of this problem very quickly.

One thing not mentioned is the speed of the shave. When I started, it took me about 20 minutes to do a single pass and considerably longer for subsequent passes. As a result, I compensated by only lathering half my face at any time during the first two months of shaving. When my speed increased enough, I could lather the whole face without having the lather dry out. If you feel like your lather is good, then just work half your face at a time until you get more comfortable with your technique and the speed increases.

Originally Posted by Ryan82

One thing I will throw out there for consideration: there is absolutely no law that says lather MUST remain perfect for an entire pass. There is nothing wrong with touching up an area with some more lather. It's as simple as that.

I don't want to sound facetious, that is not my intention at all. But quite frequently newbs post that their lather is dry or not lasting for an entire shave. So what? Run your brush over your face again and voila, problem solved with no shame whatsoever. No one is grading you on your technique.

Huge +1

Lather 1/2 or even 1/4 of the face at a time or even better just apply more lather to you face...

There also seems to be much more talk of adding more Glycerin to the mix, it seems this started with some of the vids...

First keep in mind the are three different lathers

Single product lather

Soap & cream mix = Superlather

Soap & Cream and a few (2-5 drops) of Glycerin = Uberlather

Many single products do not react well with just adding glycerin to them especially larger amounts... Keep in mind it is your face and your lather so do as you will....
But there are decreasing benefits, and yes people have had negative reactions to the addition of too much glycerin, (Honestly I don't care the technical reason) so please be careful when recommending larger amounts...
Basically folks read everything, then work your lather from there... Only you know your face, your water, and your technique, we can only say what works for us....

When I first started shaving, the MWF dried out on one side of my face before I could shave that area. Another problem was that the lather turned gummy as it dried. And, the gumminess on the blade while shaving that area became a problem. I don't have these problems any longer. Whether my problems relate at all to yours, I don't know.

First of all, it doesn't take as long to shave as before. There isn't as much time to dry as before. But, with the adjustments mentioned next, it doesn't matter how long I take to shave, I don't have a drying problem any more.

An aside...

Here's an experiment I performed one time to determine the effect of heat on whiskers. I prepped an area well and lathered. But, didn't shave that area for about 5 minutes. I took one shaving pass with the blade to judge the ease of cutting. Then, using hot water I rewet the area, reapplied lather and immediately shaved. The effect of the heat was stunning! It was so much easier to shave. (Remember, the area had been prepped well and maintained wet throughout. The only variable was heat.) Then, I waited a minute or two, and shaved again. Noticeably harder to shave!

I concluded that it was not enough to prep an area well before shaving. The whiskers need to be warm when shaving, and not just recently warmed.

Back to MWF...

I maintain hot lather in a bowl. I relather my face about once every 5 minutes with hot lather, even those areas not to be shaved for a period of time. (Takes maybe 20 seconds. Done quickly.) And, I add a few drops of water to the lathering bowl occasionally to counteract the evaporation of water from the lathering bowl.

Summarizing...

I maintain a constant watery lather in the bowl.
I relather my face several times during the shave.

So, I am not shaving a face with lather that has been applied 20 minutes ago. I shave with lather applied a few minutes ago.

(Sometimes I shave with two brushes. One dipped into quite hot water and used to wash the face. The other brush with the lather.)

Finally, all the above sounds intolerably complicated. It isn't! Just complicated to explain.

Originally Posted by Ryan82

One thing I will throw out there for consideration: there is absolutely no law that says lather MUST remain perfect for an entire pass. There is nothing wrong with touching up an area with some more lather. It's as simple as that.

Another +1.
I lather my face and my head at the same time when I start my shave. I believe that the lather sitting on my head helps to soften the hair. By the time I finish my face, the head lather is pretty dried out. I just dip my brush in some warm water and swirl it around... Poof! The lather on my head is as good as when I first applied it.

As to glycerine in the lather, I have experimented with the amount added, just to see the difference in the texture of the lather. Reliably the lather gets to a point where one more drop of glycerine completely destroys it and it cannot be rebuilt without adding more soap. If you do use glycerine, I think it's best to start with small amounts and work your way up. Keep track of how much you add, so that if you do destroy your lather you have an idea of there that breaking point is the next time you do it.

Thanks again for the further tips. A special shout out to LarryAndro who shipped me my WMF sample free of charge.

I'm going to have another shave tonight, I'll will give you all an update on the lather.

Shave scuttles work well with keeping lather warm n moist..just a thought!

pcdad

Originally Posted by markevens

I've been using Mitchell's Wool Fat soap, and it seems to dry out on my face. Last shave I finished the right side of my face, and by that time the left side did not feel wet. I relathered and went forward, but by the time I was done with the left side, the neck suds didn't feel wet.

Here is how I do my lather. I've got a glass bowl with the MWF squished into the corners. I let my brush soak in hot water while I shower. When done, I give it a quick single flick to get some of the water off, and stick it in my MWF bowl and mix away. A quick, thick foamy lather whips right up and when the brush is loaded up I start lathering my face.

I don't want runny lather, but I don't want the lather drying on my face either. How much water should I be using?

I experienced the same thing, but have only used MWF once and have only been straight razor shaving three months.

At this point, I think I'm just taking too long to shave to expect the lather to stay good until I finish. I just re-lather.

What keeps this new-found hobby fresh and exciting is the number of variables at play while I'm shaving. There's technique, angle, the brush, the soap, the prep (never a problem because I shave immediately after a shower), the stropping. The way I know I am making progress is that I am getting better shaves and when I do cut myself I now know right away what I did wrong.

I mentioned that I only used MWF once. That's because I used Poraso for the first time three days ago and I love that stuff!