Thread: Question for English Razor Experts - Any Info on Dicken?

Originally Posted by Hanlon

Bring on the confusion! The vague and shadowy possibilities of history beat knowing nothing any day.

At least you've got plenty to choose from .....

Could well be, Zak - the date is much better!

As Isaac had no children and left money to nephew Samuel, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he named one of his descendants after himself - as was the custom with male kids back then - and the ring became complete...

For little-known makers, I have come to regard the Cutlers Guild records as pretty useless, btw.

Regards,
Neil

Originally Posted by Neil Miller

RE: Isaac Dicken-

There is an old manuscript about the early settlers of Virginia that may be of interest. A descendent of the original founder from Spotsylvania Co. with the same name - John Graves - was married to an emigrant called Susannah Dicken. The dates of the marriage, and John's early death, are recorded - but useless. It seems that they adopted a dating system based on the bible, so we cannot compare dates effectively. Suffice it to say that susannah Dicken outlived John Graves and may have been "...my sister, Susannah Dicken, widow..." referred to in Isaac's will. She is supposed to have been born in 1714, which brings her into the same timeframe. Lending some support to this admittedly 'loose' supposition is that she named one of her sons Isaac.

Regards,
Neil

Hmmmmmm..... Susannah had a son, possibly an Isaac, early Virginia... American made?

Originally Posted by sharptonn

Hmmmmmm..... Susannah had a son, possibly an Isaac, early Virginia... American made?

If that razor is American Made somebody will have to re-write history! http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...p;goto=newpost

Originally Posted by Voidmonster

Just to add a little confusion to the matter (which really, we all just love, don't we?) there was also a Samuel Dicken, son of Silas Dicken who hailed from Bakewell. Young Samuel was apprenticed to Peter Goite (or maybe Gyte), a general cutler in Sheffield. The apprenticeship began in 1785 and Samuel was freed in 1797.

The razor certainly looks like one made not long after 1797, but I consider just a mention in the Cutler's Company's apprentice rolls to be pretty tenuous evidence. I can't find any other information about Samuel Dicken in Sheffield.

Maybe he learned the trade and then moved back to Bakewell? Can't find anything through Ancestry either.

Or perhaps that particular Dicken changed his name to Mycock...

Always impressive to see how much information some guys can get from the old scrolls, thanks for your good work!

Originally Posted by Lemur

Or perhaps that particular Dicken changed his name to Mycock...

Now, now, cheeky!

Originally Posted by Neil Miller

Could well be, Zak - the date is much better!

As Isaac had no children and left money to nephew Samuel, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he named one of his descendants after himself - as was the custom with male kids back then - and the ring became complete...

For little-known makers, I have come to regard the Cutlers Guild records as pretty useless, btw.

I agree about the Cutler's Company records. There's too little context, and far too much ambiguity about what any of it means (see, for example, William Hawcroft's apprentice record!)

Another look at Leader's doorstop did turn up a tiny bit more -- within two years of being a freeman, the Dicken listed there had taken his own apprentice, then he took on another in 1803. Both those list him as a knifemaker. But of course, there aren't any other records I can find. No parish records or burial or census. It's really all just as helpful as seeing the (quite lovely) razor that started the thread. This guy made stuff. Who was he? Was he the same guy that made the razor (or rather, paid workmen to make)? No clue.

Originally Posted by Lemur

Or perhaps that particular Dicken changed his name to Mycock...

Always impressive to see how much information some guys can get from the old scrolls, thanks for your good work!

In this case, I'm mostly providing a service about half a notch up from Google Translate on passages like this one:

Dicken Samuel, son of Silas, Sheldon, Bakewell, m. dec. : to Goite (or Gyte) Peter, c. ; 7, 1785, F. 1797.

One wonders if there was, in that family, ever a Dickon Dicken? They were far enough north the possibility exists they could've married into the Glascock family, too!

Originally Posted by Voidmonster

Another look at Leader's doorstop did turn up a tiny bit more -- within two years of being a freeman, the Dicken listed there had taken his own apprentice, then he took on another in 1803. Both those list him as a knifemaker.... Who was he? Was he the same guy that made the razor (or rather, paid workmen to make)? No clue.

This seems to be the most likely lead, by far and away. At the very least we've got a knifemaker in the right time frame. Thanks for digging this up!

Originally Posted by Voidmonster

It's really all just as helpful as seeing the (quite lovely) razor that started the thread. This guy made stuff.

Well, I think it's a little more helpful than just seeing the razor. Although, the razor is an impressive piece of workmanship. Everything is solid and well balanced. The pins are tight. The blade's shoulder is particularly nice, I think. Whoever made it went to some effort rather than just leaving the thing shoulderless.

Are you really not going to shave with that beauty? I love those old blades, and cant imagine not being tugged at by history to at least clean up neck or cheeks with 200 year old steel.
If you ever change your mind, I'll hone it for you free!

That's a great offer. But man, it would break my heart if I dropped it and broke it. When it comes to the rarer stuff, I lean toward preservation and conservation rather than shaving.