Thread: General rule for hardness?

Is there a statement, in general, that can be made regarding the "hardness" of the steel
used by various razor manufacturers?

For example, is Sheffield steel "softer" than Solingen steel?

Is it possible to grade the hardness/softness of the various manufacturers in a sort of
linear fashion, ie softest to hardest?

Of course there are variations (by lot, by date of manufacture, etc), but I'm wondering
if there is a general guideline.

Thanks in advance.

Paul

I have never owned or used any German razors but I do have a fairly respectable stable made up of Sheffield and Eskiltuna made razors and in my experience, the Sheffield razors are noticably softer than the ones made in Eskiltuna that are very hard, this is not necessarilly a bad thing regarding the Sheffields as I enjoy both types of edges.

I think it is really hard to say, even on a general level. There have been many drop forges wherever there was a cutlery and razor making industry, and quality control, as far as I know, was not always that exact. Personally, I haven't noticed any huge differences, except that some Sheffield razors take an edge a bit faster and lose it a bit sooner than let's say most Eskilstuna razors. But I cannot honestly tell the difference between honing a 20th century Solingen, Eskilstuna or USA razor. There might be differences, but I haven't noticed anything radical.

There have been so many different processing methods, drop forges, etc. that I find it hard to believe that anything definite can be said about the consistency of the hardness in e.g. Solingen made razors, even when just limited to the first half of the 20th century.

On a side note, nowadays all Solingen/German razors are made of the blanks produced by only one drop forge, in Herkenrath.

I find my Swedish razors (Eskiltuna) harder than the others, and they need double the laps on the Shapton 16k to refresh the edge. I think my softest is the Bengall, though my Wade and Butcher Special is sort of soft. having said that, all my Swedish razors i have at present are framebacks, so also the whole feel is possibly different to the hollows and wedges in how they feel on the face.

I don't like one over the other, I like how the Swedish razors take a nice edge and hold the edge for a long time, and the bevels seem very narrow, but i also like the feel of a smoother steel. That's why I rotate them in a particular order; to go from a harder steel one day to a softer steel the next.

I think I know what you are after/thinking, but your question is a lot like the word "assume". If you take the word assume and make it an acronym:
ASS out of U and ME

So to generalize, kind of like saying all of the guys from the south (USA) are rednecks:
English steels are about the softest, but smoothest I have experienced
German steels are in the middle of the road
American & Swedish steels are the hardest

In all honesty, I think you need to generalize more of when they were manufactured simply due to the history & technology of heat treating steadily improving & purities of the steel. The English razors were some of the first & American/Swedish were some of the last before DE & disposable razors took over.

Originally Posted by shooter74743

...So to generalize, kind of like saying all of the guys from the south (USA) are rednecks...

You mean they're NOT?! But the movies! I've seen the movies!

All steel alloys are a trade-off between hardness v. toughness. A SR actually needs both characteristics, which dictates a high carbon steel that is properly tempered for this application.

Hardness has limitations; too much and it becomes brittle; too little and it cannot take an edge. Glass is harder than any tempered steel; yet, no engineer would use glass leaf-springs for a car's suspension. This application requires toughness - the ability to recover from torque or bending action. A SR needs hardness to achieve and maintain sharpness. A SR requires toughness to allow the thin edge to bend without breaking when slicing through our tough, copper-like whiskers.

Modern steel alloys are superior to any manufactured prior to WWII, even though I am very nostalgic and mystical about old razors. Stainless steel alloys are much tougher today than even 30 years ago.

BOTTOMLINE: The best SR alloy is a balance of hardness (~58-62 Rockwell) and toughness. Most of the leading manufacturers achieve this objective with modern steel alloys and proven tempering methods.

Originally Posted by carlmaloschneider

You mean they're NOT?! But the movies! I've seen the movies!

Actually, having lived in Virginia for two decades (you'll notice I live in New Jersey now and am a happy guy), I can say with authority this is 100% true. They're all rednecks, every one!

You can't tell by grouping razors, either by country, locality or steel.

For instance Sheffield steel is said by many to be soft, but it can be very hard indeed, even in some of the older brands.

Swedish steel is generally accepted as being hard. BUT Sheffield steel was forged frm Swedish iron ore (mostly).

The main factor thzt determines the hardness is how the steel is tempered, so we can have a very hard but brittle steel, a strong but resilient spring steel, a hard but impact resisant tool steel and a soft easily worked steel - all from the same starting alloy.

Unless you know how indidual makers tempered their razors or have the rockwell hardness of the finished product available, all you can do is generalise, and when it comes to making a singular purchase basing it on a generality is often disappointing.

Regards,
Neil