Thread: Scale rot example

Originally Posted by Oscroft

Just spotted this on eBay UK and thought I'd post it as a warning...





It looks like a beautiful example of celluloid rot (if beautiful is the word). See how the blade damage matches the light-coloured parts of the scales?

Originally Posted by Oscroft

And the rust would match the light color in the scales so nicely? I doubt it.

Originally Posted by Oscroft

Pitting from cell rot often is patchy - it often tends to follow the lighter and more transparent celluloid, whereas normal rust doesn't.

It progresses from the line of closing of the razor, yes, and in the example you show the scale celluloid is pretty uniform in material so I'd expect a more uniform pitting from the rot (although it's way too far gone to have any idea how it would have started). Look at my example again - the pitting is pretty much within the closed line of the blade, and it's almost an exact match for the light color patches of the scales.

There's another example of pattern-dependent rot here.

Originally Posted by Oscroft

It really doesn't seem likely to me that rust and staining would just happen to coincide so closely with the color patterns of the scales... but I guess once some cell rot starts, any further dampness from not drying properly might well accumulate in the first pittings and that's where the rusting would happen.

Originally Posted by Oscroft

So, any idea why it exactly coincides with the patterns on the scales?

Originally Posted by Oscroft

You don't? Wow

Here is the thing, you are trying really hard to definitively say this is Cell Rot, which everyone is trying to tell you that although you may very well be right, there is just NO way to definitively say that from the 2 pics presented.. That is what everyone is trying to get across (at least that is my impression) we are not saying you are wrong we are simply saying that there isn't enough info presented to tell for sure

Without further info it is a distinct possibility that this is most likely Cell Rot, did you notice the wording I just used..

Now if that razor were in hand it would be a whole different story, regardless of whether it is cell rot or not the razor is in need of serious restoration if it will survive that is also not definitive from the pics

I agree, it has to be assessed in-hand.

With mottled celluloid it is true that the steel under clear areas is more affected than under dark, opaque areas. This is usually because dark/opaque areas come from a different mix, usually containing a large amount of filler (usually powdered asbestos) to take the colouring and make a solid colour. That means this type has less acid releasing celluloid, so the marking on the steel is not as severe.

In this example the darker areas seem to contain just dye, so something else is happening. Either the razor has been kept in the light and the light celluloid has transmitted light, drying the vapour and concentrating it. However, it might just be water already on the blade in conjunction with a phenomenom akin to 'pattern staining' that you sometimes see on the walls of plastered/rendered buildings.

In this case the staining is caused by heat differentials. Warm areas encourage airfow wile cool areas allow the air to move slowly. Warm air can hold more moisture than cold air, so cooler areas get water deposited on them, and stain.

Or it could be a combination of both. If it is celluloid, then part of the breakdown process is the liberation of water vapour along with corrosive gas.

Regards,
Neil

Originally Posted by Neil Miller

In this example the darker areas seem to contain just dye

Yes, just like Brad Maggard's example.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Here is the thing, you are trying really hard to definitively say this is Cell Rot, which everyone is trying to tell you that although you may very well be right, there is just NO way to definitively say that from the 2 pics presented.. That is what everyone is trying to get across (at least that is my impression) we are not saying you are wrong we are simply saying that there isn't enough info presented to tell for sure

No, I'm not trying to do that at all - I happily agree you can't tell for sure without actual examination, as I have already said.

I'm just curious that so many people seem to think it's more likely to be just plain rust but don't have any ideas as to how simple rust would form in the same pattern as the scale colors (and I'm staggered that at least one person can't even see it!)

And I'm just trying to discuss it to see if anyone can offer any suggestions that might explain it - but if nobody can or wants to, I'll just shut up and go away.

Update: Apologies, I see Neil has offered some suggestions that might explain it - thanks. I just replied before I read to the end.

Further update: I also confess I'm still smarting from the sarcastic put-down I got - and it's not the first time on this forum. I apologise for not liking it, and now I really will go away.

No Need to go away,you had some supporting Evidence about the colors,I found that interesting.
Maybe it is cell rot, maybe not.

Originally Posted by Oscroft

I also confess I'm still smarting from the sarcastic put-down I got - and it's not the first time on this forum. I apologise for not liking it, and now I really will go away.

You certainly have the prerogative of throwing the baby out with the bathwater ....... but if I left every forum where I got a sarcastic reply in a thread I'd never have any forums to participate in. Guess my skin is thicker. Stick around though, you'll be glad you did.

There have been some people who have agreed and some who have not. I see nothing wrong with this and question why it is so important that you seem to need the recognition for being correct here.

OK, I get it, you came here to pick a fight and then go back to your Hate Forum to proclaim your status and get some additional recognition as well as a heightened status for shaking the bushes over here. I notice the usual hate and agenda boys that participate over there on every thread like the one you started falling right into line. Too bad. If this thread was in your house, it would have already been deleted with all who disagreed with you banned and it's existence forgotten in a minute. It really would be nice to see the forums get along mutually, but I suspect that will never happen so long as Trolls and those who just come over to pick a fight here continue with the same nonsense.

We have so many great members here who participate in many of the forums and media venues out there and seem to have no problems co-existing. I really hate to see just a few people from one hate venue continue to come here and proclaim themselves professors of straight razors and proclaim that their opinions will either be excepted or we will be condemned negatively. People not only disagree with me and each other daily, but they find new ways of doing things and the new ways and new things really work and every one seems to learn something. We are always learning and I think that is the key more than any self recognition, self righteousness or any negative agenda for that mater. The goal of this place is to promote wetshaving and to help people become successful in all aspects of wet shaving and to pay if forward when ever possible. It is not here for any one to proclaim their righteousness.

So, I guess I better close this one now eh.......

Have fun.

Originally Posted by Oscroft

No, I'm not trying to do that at all - I happily agree you can't tell for sure without actual examination, as I have already said.

I'm just curious that so many people seem to think it's more likely to be just plain rust but don't have any ideas as to how simple rust would form in the same pattern as the scale colors (and I'm staggered that at least one person can't even see it!)

And I'm just trying to discuss it to see if anyone can offer any suggestions that might explain it - but if nobody can or wants to, I'll just shut up and go away.

Update: Apologies, I see Neil has offered some suggestions that might explain it - thanks. I just replied before I read to the end.

Further update: I also confess I'm still smarting from the sarcastic put-down I got - and it's not the first time on this forum. I apologise for not liking it, and now I really will go away.

I guess the bottom line for me is that if I had that razor and took the time to clean it up, those scales would not go back on it.

I think from an Ebay standpoint, if I were looking for a razor and wanted to keep the scales, I'd pass on the one shown.