Thread: Same maker but very different steel

About a year and a half ago I picked up a Jackson (knife and shear) razor, not in the best of shape but the steel was really nice and took a great edge with almost no effort. I don't see Jackson razors very often so when I stumbled upon one on eBay I jumped on it. This one was absolutely horrible. The steel appeared to be nothing like the first one. Just upon a visual inspection the steel was obviously lighter in its weight. After trying to hone it, it was crumbling, flaking, and almost tearing on the stones. The two blades could not be any more different. I'd like to say that the steel was compromised by rust or age but there were no signs of that and the general weight and feel of it were simply not of the same caliber. I've never seen this kind of variation in quality from the same producer. Is this common?

I don't know. Are the tang stamps identical or does it appear that they might have been made in different periods of time ? Could be a quality control issue. Back in those days the forgers would judge the temper by the color and just eyeball it.

General Julian Hatcher found that the smiths at Springfield Armory during WWI, forging the '03 Springfield receivers, using the eyeball to gauge temper, varied quite a bit in results because of the ambient light conditions. Sunny day would produce one result and overcast another. I'm wondering it that same circumstance may not have had something to do with it ?

The stamps are basically the same. It's just the steel. The bad one doesn't even seem to have any of the characteristics of the steel used for a razor. I don't believe Jackson made razors for very long. So while they may have been made at different times, I don't think it could have been too far apart. Very weird.

Zak and Science Guy have a lot of experience with the oldies, maybe they will be along and opine. Mike Blue is an expert in metallurgy, you might shoot a PM to him to make sure he sees this thread.

The weight difference could be a clue...

I have seen only a few in all these years, but there are razors out there that were "Demonstrators" or "Advertisements" they were handed out almost like we do a business card today..
The ones I have seen were very light, they felt "Off" and the "Steel" just crumbled away on the 1k..

I doubt this is the problem with yours as these are pretty rare to run across, since I would guess many were just tossed away, but I have had a few cross my bench, so I'll mention it ...

Originally Posted by gssixgun

The weight difference could be a clue...

I have seen only a few in all these years, but there are razors out there that were "Demonstrators" or "Advertisements" they were handed out almost like we do a business card today..
The ones I have seen were very light, they felt "Off" and the "Steel" just crumbled away on the 1k..

I doubt this is the problem with yours as these are pretty rare to run across, since I would guess many were just tossed away, but I have had a few cross my bench, so I'll mention it ...

I'll be honest that what you're saying sounds very possible here. It may be one of those as this one does not even seem like it was ever meant to hold an edge for shaving. It's SO night and day that I'm really shocked. Besides the stamp, they have nothing in common with one another.

This is odd, the steel density is pretty much set to within less than 5%, so if one razor is noticeably lighter it must have less steel. So, smaller size, hollower grind, different design (smaller shank)...

With old razors it's often the draw of the luck - they didn't use good technology even if it were available. E.g. the heat treatment could be done by eyeballing the color, so even with experience depending on the sunlight you could get poor results.
There is always the odd exceptional razor from a less known manufacturer that's a matter of just them getting it right by luck. When you get a big sample it's completely different. (Many of us are quite familiar with the legendary Chronic, and even had first row seats when it was created out of thin air despite the sober voices pointing how everything was wrong.)

It can the other way too - even a good manufacturers could have the odd bad piece slip through the quality control.

That's why some brands are special - e.g. dubl duck, case, boker... but primarily dubl duck because they were only a vendor with amazing consistency of high quality.

I do have few small brands from old sheffield that are special - all of their razors are great (mine and those of other people), and far prefer them to the popular stuff like w&b. They're not secret - they resurface on the forum every now and then, but they are small so I would prefer that they do not become celebrities with huge prices and won't mention them.

You never know. it could be they stopped their own production at one point and imported razors and that could be the difference.