Thread: Wedge Hardness?

Hello all you wedge lovers out there. I have a general question for those of you in the know concerning the hardness of wedges vs hollow ground. I have two wedges that will sharpen to a very keen edge. They will both also grow a fin while honing from the toe to slightly less than a quarter of the blade length. Both strop out to a very keen edge but they don't seem to hold that edge as well as my hollow ground razors. I have a Wade and Butcher wedge that will hone equally as well, doesn't fin off the hone and renders an excellent shave. I don't know, perhaps the two that fin were subjected to buffing without regard to the heat? Maybe the production of those two was before better days of inherent carbon? Just maybe that is the way it is suppose to be and I'm not honing and stropping them according to their needs? Could it be that they may need honing without tape to reestablish the edge then tape to yield a narrower edge?

I would appreciate some wedge discussion on your success at honing, stropping and daily shaves with them. Please include anything that may have turned the lights on leading to successful technique. I'm looking forward to reading your responses.

Thank you.

Chasmo

Pictures speak a thousand words :<0) I don't think the steel is going to be different as far as type of grind so much as in what steel it was made with. I think the general consensus is the Sheffield steel is somewhat softer than German etc. Are you using tape? What kind of hone wear are you up against ? Is the blade geometry correct ? I think we are going to need more info in order to get your answer.

My W&B is not wedge and is softer than german hollow.

I don't know about harder or softer as I have no way of accurately measuring steel hardness and don't like to make metallurgical assumptions based on honing.

I do dare to state that Sheffield blades from the 1800's probably had less (accurate) quality control for hardness than let's say Solingen razors in the 1900's.

You have to search back about 7 years in the archives for the threads...

There were many "Trashed" razors sent around to people that had access to testers

Several were checked for edge hardness some were even tested for Edge vs Spine hardness

IIRC

The Sheffields came out more in the 56-58 RHC
the German came out more in the 58-60 RHC

These are generalities though,,, not an exact number for any particular razor..

Most of the older heavy Sheffield razor have more of an issue with correct geometry... If you are raising a Burr (fin) when honing any razor then something is not working correctly and it can only be a few things

1. Incorrect Honing
2. Geometry Issues
3. Steel issues

You have to eliminate each one to decide on where your issue is

Originally Posted by gssixgun

You have to search back about 7 years in the archives for the threads...

There were many "Trashed" razors sent around to people that had access to testers

Several were checked for edge hardness some were even tested for Edge vs Spine hardness

IIRC

The Sheffields came out more in the 56-58 RHC
the German came out more in the 58-60 RHC

These are generalities though,,, not an exact number for any particular razor..

Most of the older heavy Sheffield razor have more of an issue with correct geometry... If you are raising a Burr (fin) when honing any razor then something is not working correctly and it can only be a few things

1. Incorrect Honing
2. Geometry Issues
3. Steel issues

You have to eliminate each one to decide on where your issue is

I’ve often wondered if the “GS” in “GSSIXGUN” stood for gunsmith as in a revolver gunsmith….Gssixgun or “General Service” as in a revolver happy government worker. Perhaps they are your initials. Please pardon the digression, it has simply been a curiosity. But, there are things in some of your writings that have made me wonder if you have a gunsmithing or some smithy background. I do. So, I think you are spot on with your three categories of possible ills of these two razors.

One is of Sheffield steel with a heavy spine and measures a bit over 6/8”. The other is of old French ancestry a bit less than 5/8” with heavy hone wear. The first one is fairly symmetrical except that the point does curve sharply and may suffer from a need to correct the point’s shape, narrow the edge and finish using tape. Ok, I can see where the symmetry could be causing the edge to be at too little an angle to prevent fining or burring. The second one I’m afraid suffers from having the point annealed from buffing. The heel of both these razors will get nearly as sharp as a scolding from a woman, yes that scary. I’ve often thought about regrinding the second one under running water into a hollow to salvage it as a shaver. That would mean I’ll have to make another contraption when I get settled after my upcoming move. That’s just my kind of adventure though.

I don’t think my honing is a culprit. I exclusively use Coticules as a finisher and rarely use anything else. Should I do an edge restoration I have stones of a more coarse grit to quickly get to the point where a Coticule will be an effective finish. I’m careful to abrade evenly on both sides and I’m pressure conscious. I strop well and get excellent shaves. Both of these will give an excellent shave if all factors are in perfect alignment but, they have not repeated the excellent shave with only stropping. You wouldn’t think that planetary alignment would have an effect. My other razors will shave for quite some time without honing as long as I do my part well. I’ll have to ponder the reshaping of the Sheffield’s point. If you come up with something else please sing out.

Thank you.

Chasmo

Actually it sounds like you are doing everything correctly, even down to the Coticule finish, that is my normal choice for Sheffield steels..

You might try reversing the process by backing down the grit ladder one rung at a time and seeing at what point the edge holds Or perhaps adding one layer of tape to the finishing point and create a double bevel and see if that holds better...



Your curiosity was very close


Sixgun my original gaming name since Asteroids days, probably left over from reading comic books like "The Rawhide Kid & "The Two Gun Kid" LOL

GS = GemStar Custom Rifles, why GemStar ??? I blame my parents, they started it by giving my sister and I initials that spelled something, SAM and GEM (it is considered lucky is what I was told)
My sister formed her advertising company a few years before I started the Rifles and used her's "Strategic Advertising & Marketing" so I had to follow suit with GemStar

When I first signed onto a computer and needed a Screen name I tried for just "Sixgun" but of course that was taken on early AOL, so I tried "gssixgun" and it took, I have never changed it since 1989 so you were pretty darn close in your musings


This thread might give you a few ideas also

http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...bing-over.html


Good Luck

Some time ago I posted this thread about a Joseph Elliot and a Le Grelot I have. The Grelot went to a fellow straight shaver on honest terms. As for the Joseph Elliot, I was in a dilemma over its state of hardness or quality as a shaver in an age of more modern steel and techniques. I'm happy to report that the issue has been with me all along. Mind you, this thing is a big fat wedge, a hatchet of sorts but a gorgeous razor none the less. The latter of which made my dilemma all the more uncomfortable. There were some suggestions in the forum and my persistence all helped out. The crux of the problem was with the stropping thereof. It seems that I was leaving it with too keen of an edge or too great of a fin. There by only a small amount of shaving would spoil the edge and it would become unpleasant to shave with. Just the right amount of slack in the strop to give a more reinforced edge, for a lack of a better description, made all the difference in the world. The thing is a joy to shave with nowadays. So, I guess the moral of this story would be, if your razor seems to die mid shave perhaps it is the stropping technique and not so much the razor at fault. I hope someone else can use this to crack the code on such an issue of their own. Thanks to all for your replies.

Regards

Chasmo

I have several wedges, I have almost quit using hollows because they they shave better imo, the hollows I have don't hold the edge any better or worse than any german steel I have. I have grown to love using the wedge razors, several wades, a pair of joseph elliots, a greaves,geo. butler, and very old Washington works and one maher and grosh trusty razor. they all seem to go about as long on shaving as the hollows did.