Thread: What are the different types of Carbon steel used in razors?

I'm starting to read more and more about the different features of razors, and not just about the sizes, grinds and widths etc.

Because of this, I'm wondering what kinds of steel is used for the different razors, and how they all compare to each other in how good of an edge they can get and keep.
From what I've been reading, some of the best types are:

. Tamahagane steel from Japan. Mostly used from NOS from several decades ago, and is more expensive than gold but more or less the same as other types of high-carbon steel.
. Toleda from Spain, but originally from Arabia. Used in the first two generations of Filarmonicas
. Damascus, which I've only seen in customs by Mr Williams, Zowada, Livi etc.
. Swedish steel - I haven't been able to find much information about these, other than that the more recent Iwasaki razors are made from this. I'm not sure if "swedish steel" is the name of this kind of steel, or an umbrella term to describe many different types, like how Toleda is a sub-category of Spanish steel.
. Sheffield steel - Same as above. I have an 1830s razor which is stamped with "For use. Warranted" which I've read was a mark that the razor was made from Cast steel developed by Robert Huntsmann of Sheffield, but I would be interested in knowing more about it if possible.
. I've also been reading about "India steel" which some have compared to Wootz/ damascus steel.

So I'm mainly looking for information about the different types of steel used in razor making, how they compare to each other, and what India, Sheffield, Solingen and Swedish steel actually mean. Are they umbrella terms or certain types?

I'm afraid your question has stepped into a swamp.

The origin of the ore that was used to produce the steel absolutely has an impact.

Also, the alloys used -- is it pure carbon, are there added other elements? This interacts with the origin, because iron from different regions has different impurities.

Also, the process used to convert iron into steel. There are lots of ways of doing this that all produce wildly varying results.

The way in which it is heat treated in order to harden it makes a huge difference on many different attributes.

And then, once it's been poured through that maze of sieves and has taken the shape of a razor, your perception will have more of an impact than many of the actual differences, because the process of shaving is subjective. The razor is the same from day to day, but your face is not. The biological processes that affect your skin happen much more quickly than the processes that change the steel in the razor.

Confusing things even more, most Sheffield steel was made with ore from Sweden. For quite a long time, most of the steel used in Europe came from Sheffield, which meant it also came from Sweden, but it was the various Sheffield processes that turned it into steel, and those processes varied slightly from manufacturer to manufacturer. It was possibly modified still further by the manufacturers at the other end, either when it was heat-treated or even when the goods were made with it.

As far as "For Use / Warranted" indicating cast steel (from Benjamin Huntsman's process), the answer is a solid 'maybe'. He'd been dead for decades in 1830. Was the blade made by someone using steel produced by the process Huntsman invented? Almost certainly it was some variation of it, but by that point it was being done at a scale far beyond Huntsman.

My subjective answer is this: you're going to find that blade shape, size and grind matter far, far more than the steel. Unless the steel is actively poor.

Originally Posted by Voidmonster

Also, the alloys used -- is it pure carbon, are there added other elements? This interacts with the origin, because iron from different regions has different impurities.

The way in which it is heat treated in order to harden it makes a huge difference on many different attributes.

Confusing things even more, most Sheffield steel was made with ore from Sweden. For quite a long time, most of the steel used in Europe came from Sheffield, which meant it also came from Sweden, but it was the various Sheffield processes that turned it into steel, and those processes varied slightly from manufacturer to manufacturer. It was possibly modified still further by the manufacturers at the other end, either when it was heat-treated or even when the goods were made with it.

My subjective answer is this: you're going to find that blade shape, size and grind matter far, far more than the steel. Unless the steel is actively poor.

I'd completely forgotten about all the things you mentioned. My thinking had simplified into Toleda = Filarmonica (or other high quality Spanish razors), and same for Swedish steels to Heljestrands. Tamahagane for Japanese etc.

As for my initial question, I'd been hearing about different members saying that Filarmonicas were some of the best they'd used, and that they were made from Toleda, so I'd assumed that the steel used was what made it seem smoother than other 6/8 hollow grounds.

But if majority of the steel used in Europe came from Sheffield which came from Swedish ore, would a W&B, Heljestrand, and Dubl Duck have more or less the same chemical composition, but differ in terms of quality based on the manufacturer's processes?

Originally Posted by Amenrab

I'd completely forgotten about all the things you mentioned. My thinking had simplified into Toleda = Filarmonica (or other high quality Spanish razors), and same for Swedish steels to Heljestrands. Tamahagane for Japanese etc.

As for my initial question, I'd been hearing about different members saying that Filarmonicas were some of the best they'd used, and that they were made from Toleda, so I'd assumed that the steel used was what made it seem smoother than other 6/8 hollow grounds.

But if majority of the steel used in Europe came from Sheffield which came from Swedish ore, would a W&B, Heljestrand, and Dubl Duck have more or less the same chemical composition, but differ in terms of quality based on the manufacturer's processes?

I've never shaved with a Filarmonica, and I don't really know anything about them or where their steel was sourced.

What I do know is that by the time Filarmonica razors were made, the dominant method of refinement was the Bessemer process, and one of the main benefits of that process is better reduction of impurities.

There are just too many variables for a meaningful answer.

Basically, the problem is that the instrument we all have to use to gather data on 'shave quality' is a bizarre, cantankerous thing that's at best difficult to calibrate -- our faces, or whatever other part of the largest organ of the human machine you're talking about -- changes constantly. My left cheek is slightly more sensitive than my right cheek. But only if I start with my right cheek.

You can do objective scientific analysis of the steels used, and you'll get very good answers, and by and large, those test results will tell you that modern steel is in every way superior to the stuff made 150 years ago.

But I don't think you'll find any razors made with the best modern steel that feel meaningfully different to shave with than the best razors made with the best steel from 150 years ago. The keratin extruded from our skin just is not sufficiently demanding to reveal those improved properties of steel.

There might be a simpler answer to your question. I agree with everything stated, but if you look past the origin of the ore and the workmanship, in a nutshell, the main difference is the carbon content. You can have blades that go from being made of mild steel (low carbon content), all the way to ultra-high carbon steel (where the amount of carbon is above 1% of the total). Beyond that you end up in iron category. Somewhere in there you will find the stainless steels, where aside from the carbon content, you have other added elements to enhance its resistance to rust. Moving from mild steel to ultra-high carbon steel will invariable affect the hardness of the material, thereby affecting honing and sharpening methods. If you want to get really technical, then different ores have different characteristics, and thereby some have better micro structures that allow for higher quality cutting tools. Swedish steel and tamagahane, are considered high quality due to the quality of the ores.

Please, anyone, correct me if I may have gotten something wrong. Hope this helps.