Thread: My Definition of a Custom Razor

Originally Posted by celticcrusader

For me the word custom begins firstly with the contact, in the same way you would meet a painter sculptor or writer you discuss the basic details but you must allow the creator to have the final say, I personally don't believe any major manufacturer such as Thiers Issard can offer a custom razor and Hart razors are just a production line of clones, at this present time I'm waiting on a custom from the UK maker Michael Waterhouse even though I outlined to Michael what I wanted I also ask Michael for his own personal view and input that's what bespoke custom means to me.

Good call here.

Yes, there is "custom". Then there is "bespoke".
I just received a new set of "custom" boots from a well-regarded Canadian manufacturer. They were made to my specifications, using multiple measurements of both feet. Although they appear similar to the same boot made for "off-the-shelf", they are just a tad different. Truth be told, they'd make you the exact same model if you wanted. Now "bespoke"...different tale (plus an additional $500.00)!!

This is taken from the website of Dayton Boot Co. They describe the whole thing better than I could:
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"Stock Boots:

Each stock boot is built to standardized specifications. Each particular style is made on a specific last and is available in the full size and width range of that particular last. When buying a stock boot, we are fitting you into a stock size.

Made To Order:

A made to order boot is an aesthetically customized stock boot. Here at Dayton we offer a variety of custom options that you can choose. These options range from different leather choices, adding and subtracting buckles and zippers and variations on the height of the boot. Each custom option has a set price, which will be calculated into the total cost of your boot......

Bespoke (custom fitting):

A bespoke boot starts with a unique last, which is built to your specific measurement. To have a bespoke boot or shoe built you have to come visit our factory show room. Our bespoke boots are built on a custom last which our experienced last maker creates once we have taken all the necessary measurements. The bespoke last is ideal for those with various orthopedic problems, or those who simply want perfect fitting footwear. The cost of a bespoke last is $500 plus the price of your boot. Once the bespoke last is created it is labeled as your own and we hang on to it until the next time you would like us to build you a pair of boots or shoes."
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Same thing applies to a suit. Even a "Custom Made, Hand-Tailored" suit is made from an existing pattern. A bespoke suit uses a pattern totally unique to that garment. Yes...it's also pricey.

So, I can see the logic of calling a Hart Steel razor perhaps "custom" in a sense when referring to the "Artisanal" (good point here..IS that an actual word??) models, but not really the standard Hart Steel offerings. I wouldn't even call them "made to order" for that matter. On the other hand, I am surely looking forward to the time when I can discuss the building of a truly "Custom/Bespoke/Made-to-Order/Artisanal" razor with Mr. Brian Brown....that's going to be quite a while though. He's pretty backed up.

In many other fields the idea of the product's volume (how many are made) and the features which you can select personally define 'custom'.

So custom becomes 'somewhat' arbitrary and related to the particular field. If you start with a production automobile (built in the millions), and have the interior completely redone by a coach shop in exotic leathers and fabrics, most would call that a custom interior. If you then have a performance shop re-machine the stock motor for greater performance and perhaps redesign the exhaust system for lower back pressure, you begin to think custom motor. Keep doing this long enough and continue with a one of a kind paint job executed by a graphic artist -- at some point you have a custom car -- even if it did start from a high volume production platform.

By the same token, if you paid someone to sit at a computer aided design station and design every part of a car from scratch, and then a series of shops to execute the design and assembled your car? Well you also have a custom car, a very custom car, it is the only one like it on the planet. You could if you wanted have a production run of one, own the design, and another could not be made.

I think if someone took a plain Jane stock razor and laser carved scales of unusual intricacy, took a higher power laser and filigreed the plane blade surface; well that sounds custom to me. Especially if the design used is specified by me and there won't be others made like it.

Obviously if someone pours steel into billets and forges to shape, grinds, and refines a one off razor that sounds custom too.

I think the discriminator is are you popping out thousands of these units or a limited number to the customer's personalized request.

Budweiser spills more beer on the shop floor than a craft brewer makes. Bud is commercial high volume production. The guy across the street making it one keg at a time? Custom. Buy some ingredients and he'll make whatever you want. It is unlikely you will be picking any up at the local store any time soon... Custom.

my .02,

Ed

I like the way Ed put it. I think that most of you are trying to put to narrow a parameter on the word custom. If I make a razor from scratch with out having a buyer lined up is that still not custom. If I have a maker create a special razor for me, custom, but if I have him make the same razor six more times for a seven day set, not custom? One thing I like to do is to take a plain razor and make "custom" scales for it and do a little grinding, drilling and etching, is that also "not" custom? Just because a manufacturer pulls a razor off of the production line and hands it over to an artisan doesn't make it any less custom. Besides, custom is just short for customized.

Originally Posted by guitstik

I like the way Ed put it. I think that most of you are trying to put to narrow a parameter on the word custom. If I make a razor from scratch with out having a buyer lined up is that still not custom. If I have a maker create a special razor for me, custom, but if I have him make the same razor six more times for a seven day set, not custom? One thing I like to do is to take a plain razor and make "custom" scales for it and do a little grinding, drilling and etching, is that also "not" custom? Just because a manufacturer pulls a razor off of the production line and hands it over to an artisan doesn't make it any less custom. Besides, custom is just short for customized.

I agree.
Whether or not the artisan made a one off using only his own design ideas or a customers ideas does not affect the "custom-ness" of it.
Imho.

What exactly qualifies as a custom is debatable I guess. In the eye of the beholder perhaps. Here is a razor that Robert Williams made for me back in '08 IIRC. There was a Japanese razor, the name of which I cannot recall, that had an absolutely radical smile. I love smiling blades and wanted a custom that was similar but not quite as radical. I made a pencil drawing of what I wanted and emailed it to Robert.

We discussed it on the phone and ironed out the details (no pun). Pre-ban elephant ivory scales, damascus forged blade, and copying the profile of the point on a W&B Bow razor. Here it is in a few photos. The one where the bevel is not honed is Robert's after he finished it. The others are mine after I honed it. I specifically asked RW not to hone it BTW. Wanted the pleasure to be all mine. In retrospect I might have asked him to go ahead and hone it. It was a job, but well worth the results.

Originally Posted by EdHutton

... Obviously if someone pours steel into billets and forges to shape, grinds, and refines a one off razor that sounds custom too.

I think the discriminator is are you popping out thousands of these units or a limited number to the customer's personalized request. ...

Yes. If a maker hand-makes a prototype. It is custom. If that model becomes very popular and customers line up for a job run of 200 of those blades. As long as the maker hand makes them, they are all custom blades.

If the pressure of the market requires more production then "custom" work orders will suffer. There is a simple requirement to mass produce pieces or orders take too long to fulfill. If they shop out the scales or parts or even the blades to a CNC shop and they put them together for customers then they become an assembler and it's difficult to call those custom blades even if they started out as copies of original custom work. I can't see a problem with "one-of's" or bespoke work.

Wow! That is just beautiful.

Ed

So the next question is does the concept of "custom" differ from the makers viewpoint versus the purchasers viewpoint?

Originally Posted by 10Pups

I think pixel said it best. I wouldn't condemn anybody for calling a razor that has been customized, a custom but to me the definition is pretty simple. One of a kind different.

When I ask an artisan to take my idea, Rough draft, and then cut him off the chain with free will to do as he wishes and what is going to work thats a custom.

Just because you gotta big block 427 Cobra Jet motor. Does not a Muscle car make. A blade that is tweeked and Scales that are fiitted into a new shape configuration and or set of materials is custom.
If not go buy a Ford focus off the line and drive happy in ignorance it is bliss for the masses.
Do you have one exactly like it? Even close?? Than its a custom. Did you get to collaborate with the builder?? Did he ask you what is most important to you and then deliver a product thats better than expected that is a custom.
If you get a tattoo out of the photo book and go with it NO. When the artist sits down and draws a design just for you and freehand lays the ink thats a custom.

See what I like from a custom build






Do you have one just like it?
No then this is a custom. By definition something other than a production model past or present.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

So the next question is does the concept of "custom" differ from the makers viewpoint versus the purchasers viewpoint?

If you put rims and tires on your stock car is it custom? If your position is that I have to have a forge and blacksmith my blanks from scratch it sounds kinds Elitist doesn't it?
Something in the middle sounds more reasonable does it not? Or do we want to become razor snobs as for spitting hairs as to what is custom or isnt? People who make there Old school cars jump and raise and lower different wheels is NOT my idea of custom. But I have to acknowledge that to the owner it is.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Kudos to the guys who have the time,money,knowledge, and passion to build from carbon steel ore.

Is there not room at the table for those who have equally detailed skill sets yet choose to restore the vintage and rebuild it differently? If you know more than I ..I want to learn to take it to the next level. Circumstances of life should not preclude artisans who strive for excellence within their skill set from not being custom.

Putting on pinstripes is a little sketchy for calling it custom but I have seen some detailers that make a pinstripe job look custom. I guess collectively we would have to look at the quality and depth of what makes it a custom. Mona Lisa is just a painting of a girl,, Right? Knowing what is all involved makes it a Masterpiece.