Thread: One Piece Razor: Two Approaches

I'll admit that I never had much attraction to the Kamasori...something about a razor that was made to be held by someone else. Aesthetically I have liked some, but frankly it is a rabbit hole I cannot afford to enter as I believe it would eventually end up with me sleeping on a futon, sweeping tatami mats and going crazy trying to figure out Japanese hones. But this razor: http://straightrazorpalace.com/custo...ce-1095-a.html started me thinking about the western grind on a short razor on a stick......I was instantly a fan of the Charlie Lewis razor in the post, first time for this type of razor. So to the question: has anyone used all three types of razors, kamisori, western grind 'kamisori,' and regular straight and how would they compare the shaving experience between the 3?

would like to know this info too, will be following this thread, thanks tc

I'll take a stab...
My kamisori's are "faux" in that they have the asymmetrical grind but and not two metal bonded. A Heart Custom and a Brian Brown.
For Western Grind - Robert Williams Purist and a Bruno 8/8
And to make it more complicated, a collection of Feather types (SS, CJB, RG)
Conventional straights? Too many to list.

Kamisori style - I try to use this "correctly" - holding the flat side to the face. This takes some practice, would not recommend it for a new shaver but the up-start is that you learn some things about angle, stretching and shaving in between your thumb and index finger (using them to not only stretch but control the direction of the stretch to stand up the hair) I use the tricks every day, but seldom pick up the razors. It helps to remember that these were designed for Monk A to shave Monk B. Using them on yourself (conventionally or "correctly") requires, IMHO, advanced shaving skills (well past 100 shaves for me)

Western Grind One Piece - I've become to think that grind (Wedge to Singing Hollow) is as much a YMMV thing as anything else. So if your one piece razor is grind A and your favorite conventional is Grind D...you are going to have issues. So keep that in mind when you give them a try. The blades tend to be shorter, this makes moving them around easier for some. But we forget how much we use the scales pinched between your fingers for control and balance. The Bruno and the RW Purist are about as far apart as you can get. I need to wrap the handle on the Bruno to make up for my hand size - but the slight smile makes it an amazing shaver. The Purist has a wicked point that requires great focus, but the weight and balance work well for me. With any one piece there has to be special attention to blade protection. Without the scales for protection any time you set the razor down you have to take special care of the edge. An easier transition from conventional than the Kamisori IMHO.

Feather Style Once Piece - Great balance and a good place to start if you are willing to master the Feather edge (low pressure, low angle and give it 2-7 shaves to master, those weepers are from too much pressure BTW) They are a commodity in that they hold their valued used so you can get in and out of them without too much pain if you are patient. Also a great travel system as you don't need strop or hone - a great edge is seconds away...They now have a snap on plastic cover for both the SS and DX/RG Fixed profile.

Conventional Straight - For background - I started out with 5/8 and 6/8 Round point Hollow ground razors. My only square points left me dazed and bleeding. Fast forward several hundred shaves and the edge of choice is a 7/8 Square or BN Point Med-1/4 hollow razor. Think Heart, RW 7/8SP & SRP, Max, W&B FBU, Ralf Aust 7/8 AP, Lewis. The Square Point makes trimming to the edge of the Mo that much easier. The French point of the RW Purist has that same detail.

I think it may come down to where you are in your learning curve and comfort level. When you have hundreds or thousands of shaves you can work with anything if you have to or want to. Since shaving with a Straight is a fine motor skill practice and experience with different systems and styles seems to help you learn/grow. What you hate today might be what you love in six months (I am an example)
And I can say that I am better for having tried them even thought they are not my ever day razors.

And Charlie Lewis's work is spell-binding is it not?

Smooth Shaving...

I have all three - so starting with the traditional kamisori, first of all I use both sides and cannot tell the difference. It's just a relatively small difference in bevel angle and anyone who has used a well worn old razor compared to, say, a Filarmonica will have experienced much the same difference. I do not consciously change the shave angle depending on which side is in use.

My Brown western kamisori - or fixed straight edge if you prefer, is different - but only because it's bigger and heavier than the Japanese. I don't think I notice any difference in terms of use between it and the Iwasaki - but as MJC has alraedy stated, you notice not having the scales more than anything with a kamisori.

One thing to bear in mind about barbershop shaves is that the barber rarely changes hands - for this reason, the old instruction manual on using a straight, shows a backhand stroke for certain passes e.g. when a r/h barber is performing a WTG on the left hand side of your face - in order that the toe is next to the ear. With a kamisori, this would probably not be necessary because the blade is smaller and a regular shape at both ends - therefore it doesn't matter so much whether it's the toe or heel next to the ear when shaving. In any event, it would be much easier for a barber to use just one side of the kamisori - trying to do it when shaving oneself just seems to be unnecessary as far as Im concerned.

I'm not sure where this thing about Kamisori being designed for folks to shave someone else with got started.

Stop and think about it for a minute. Do you think every Japanese man and Woman never shaved themselves and went to the expense of going to a barber every day or would put up with a razor designed for another person to use on them? It seems kind of ridiculous doesn't it?

Sometimes when we use something that seems alien to us and we don't quite understand we make things up so it fits our reality.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I'm not sure where this thing about Kamisori being designed for folks to shave someone else with got started.

Can't speak for others, but I can shed some light on how I came to understand that.
My work sends me to Asia a great deal, and I have friends/co-workers from that side of the pond.

Although we think of the Kamisori as Japanese a conventional wisdom is that it came from Korea along with the Buddhist religion
( The Buddhist World: Buddhism in East Asia - China, Korean, Japan. ) - and with that the tradition/practice of the shaving of the head of the Initiate / Monk to be. The Japanese added their skills at blade construction to the need.

Everyday shaving of ones self is a fairly modern habit. The driver for the likes of King Gillett and all of the others was the increase in that need to be clean-shaven every day or almost every day. The wealthy had a Valet to shave them, or the time to do it themselves is so inclined. But for the now rising middle class of the late 1800's it was off to the Barber 1-2x a week to manage the whiskers. One of the reasons for the giant FBU style blades is efficiency, you could pile a lot of lather on the blade before clearing.

With the on-set of "you need to be clean shaven every day" the choice is: a. do it your self and learn to use a Straight and get all the kit. b. go to the barber every day and that might not be practical c. We see the late 1800s early 1900s explosion of systems that make this something you could maintain and do yourself. (DE, SE, 7 Blade sets with handles like Wilkerson (sp) )
This is also why we see the Victorian Era monographs on the subject of shaving ones self and the proper selection and care of your razor and skin.

In WWI the Brits asked for Straight Razors to be donated to the cause. You still sometimes see them for sale with the unit numbers branded in to the horn scales. I recall seeing a youtube of a movie short - Soldiers back from the front getting these lighting fast one pass shaves one right after another. The US gave King Gillett an order for over 1 Million DE kits. Those kits went home with the Doughboys after the War and tipped the scales in Gillett's favor.
This also dovetailed with the shift in US population from majority rural prewar to majority city/urban/suburban postwar. (and your new job off of the farm requires you to be clean shaven, how convenient...)

We think nothing of shaving ourselves because we have been doing it for two or three generations. My Grandfather was an Italian Barber who immigrated to the US after WWI. Getting to the shop very early in the morning was the routine and most of the early weekday work was shaving. (and Bleeding people in the back room, but that is another subject). In traditional Barber shops you might be prepped by an Apprentice - "the lather boy" who would make sure your skin was reasonably clean, give you the hot towel treatment, (extra$) lather and massage that in and then re-lather just in time for the Barber to arrive with freshly stropped blade.
(if you have not tried this on yourself I suggest you give it a go...30 seconds using your fingers and palms to work in the lather, rinse clean and re-lather to shave)

And in the not to distant past in Japan the communal Bath House was the norm - just a short walk from home, your neighborhood barber was right next door.

Sorry for the long and rambling post.....

Smooth Shaving...

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I'm not sure where this thing about Kamisori being designed for folks to shave someone else with got started.

Stop and think about it for a minute. Do you think every Japanese man and Woman never shaved themselves and went to the expense of going to a barber every day or would put up with a razor designed for another person to use on them? It seems kind of ridiculous doesn't it?
.

The last time I posted on Kamisoris you made the same point - however, I am not implying that Kamisoris are designed for barbers to use- I was responding to the OPs question on how they differ from western grinds. Of course Japanese use the razors on themselves - however, whether they one or two sides is known only to themselves.

My experience is that there is no noticeable difference between either side.

The only reference to barbers was to illustrate the difference in size between a kamisori and western straight would mean that it is easier to use one side and one hand.

You know I thought I read it here on the forum but have now been educated on this subject, thanks.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I'm not sure where this thing about Kamisori being designed for folks to shave someone else with got started.

Stop and think about it for a minute. Do you think every Japanese man and Woman never shaved themselves and went to the expense of going to a barber every day or would put up with a razor designed for another person to use on them? It seems kind of ridiculous doesn't it?

Sometimes when we use something that seems alien to us and we don't quite understand we make things up so it fits our reality.

Never used a Kamisori. Just acquired one and hope to try it soon. In speaking with Oz, he related that he uses both sides of one.
They are smaller things, for certain. I also have a Lewis 8/8 one-piece. I had never used one, but it took little to get used to as opposed to scaled western grinds. At least for me!

I think most folks use both sides and they shave fine either side though I've found the feel is quite different from one side to the other.

When I got my first Tosuke back in those days no one knew squat about them and the big argument was do you use one side or both. If you use just one side there is a definite learning curve.