Thread: Vintage Razor Information-John Petty & Sons Trademark

I'm just about to wrap up this restoration. I believe that this is pretty old just based on the previous condition and the fact that it is a wedge (or it appears to be one to me). Take a look, any information would be much appreciated!

John Petty was first a pen blade grinder in Solly Street in 1841, then a grocer in Garden Street in 1851 then started making blades again at the Perth Works in Garden Street by 1868. He is most noted as a knife and cutlery maker, but he also made razors, some of which were stamped 'magnetic' - he died in 1887 at which time his son John Thomas Petty took over the company. It looks like the son changed the corporate mark in 1888.

The 1888 mark seems to have no line under the barrel. The razor is probably pre 1888 in vintage.

Nice razor, most definitely not a wedge though. Wedges have straight sides and are triangular in cross section whereas this razor is hollow ground, ie the sides are not straight but curve inwards so only the spine and the bevel rest on the hone when setting the edge. If it was a true wedge (a very, very rare beast) then the whole width of each side would sit on the hone.

There is more info on this maker and more examples of the mark in a thread started by Sharptonn called 'Barrel trade marks from Wigan and Salford' - used the advanced search option to find it.

Regards,
Neil

Thanks for the info! I Am attempting to put a round about age on the razor. I am used to seeing obvious hollow ground razors, this one is very subtle which I thought in might be a wedge. Thanks for the clarification, I appreciate the quick response.

Here is the Thread Neil is referring to. Lots to be ......learned! Quit shining on that, willya? I am BLINDED!

http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...n-salford.html

Neil, Having a quandary about the line under the barrel. Are these post 1888? after Petty passed away?

It is very hard to get an age that is more precise than within 2 or 3 decades. If there is a Royal Warrant held then you may get lucky with the mark of a short lived king like George IV or William IV, conversely you may be unlucky and get a long lived one like Queen Victoria.

Company names may be an aid before sons joined the company, but after that they might well be the same for generations.

Same goes for 'dated' events recorded on razors, which may have been made for yonks after the event, if indeed they dated back to the event recorded on them in the first place.

With a cutler who served a proper apprenticeship you stand a bit of a chance. Entry to the Cutlers Guild and the right to record a mark help, at least as far as Sheffield (and London) are concerned. A cutler would take an apprentice or two or more when they were little more than boys. They would live with the cutler for the duration of the apprenticeship (usually a minimum of 7 years, but it could be shorter or longer) and they were expected to keep up religion and not get married. Then there would be a year or two of working under journeyman/freeman status.

So, in this scenario we would see a young man, around 20 yrs, no family, starting in business. If he set up on his own account then most likely he would use his own name, if he had son at this time it would be a babe. You then allow for the sons apprenticeship and coming of age and incorporation into the company, at which time the registered name would have '& Son' tacked on the end. So you could make a reasonably good guess at a likely 'earliest' period.

Things like the Mackinly Tariff Act may or may not help, for instance no 'England' (country of origin) would seem to date a razor to pre 1891, but this does not take into account existing stock held before the Act became law, nefarious attempts to circumvent the Act or domestic product not intended for export.

All a bit of a minefield, really...

Regards,
Neil

Originally Posted by sharptonn

Neil, Having a quandary about the line under the barrel. Are these post 1888? after Petty passed away?

It would seem so according to the pic on the trademark registration shown in your post, Tom, but you never can tell. It might just be a poor representation of the mark actually recorded in the register. In any event it would seem unlikely that the old mark, if changed, was done away with. Other companies like Rodgers were notorious for reusing old marks!

Knowing the exact year the company ceased trading would be more of a help...

Regards,
Neil

Turns out the date they ceased trding does not help. They still owned the Perth Works in Garden Street, Sheffield in 1986, selling it off to a developer who demolished the lot as soon as he got his hands on it.

The best we can do then in the absence of concrete proof that the line under the barrel was drpped in 1888 is to put our faith in the Tariff Act and guess at pre-1891.

Annoying when the goalposts keep moving, isn't it?! HAR!

Regards,
Neil

Ohhhhtay! So the line was DROPPED in 1888? That would seem to say my razor and the OP's would fall below the aforementioned mark. It seems to me his has the line under the mark, albeit somewhat diminished on the ends by all the friction applied.
Probably made during Petty's lifetime?

John Petty & Sons c 1858-1953 Located at the Perth Works, Garden Street, Sheffield, England. They took over the businesses of William Gregory & Joseph Mills.This company manufactured "Bowie" type knifes, among other types of cutlery. They used the below trademarks but Neil & Sharptonn have great info too. I found my information in the Goins Encyclopedia of Cutlery Markings.