Thread: New US Razor Maker

Originally Posted by Bruno

I was wondering about the arm and leg factor as well.

Me as well butconsidering that they're very nice and that a folder pocketknife costs $1200 US on his website I'd ay once again that quality doesn't come cheap.

Originally Posted by rblair

this is a newbie kindof question....but what is dimiscus exactly? Is the patterns on the blades natural? It looks like more of the artistic knife maker types used this steel. So is it a better shaver, or just nicer looking metal??

In my opinion, Forge welded steel (what we call "damascus") usually won't be as good as the lesser of the steels used all by itself. The multiple forgings under very high heat cause decarburization, particularly in 0-1. But it is very, very pretty stuff and that alone will make it "superior steel" in the eyes of many people. One cannot argue, however, that the best makers of modern damascus are doing some really gorgeous designs.

Originally Posted by PapaBull

In my opinion, Forge welded steel (what we call "damascus") usually won't be as good as the lesser of the steels used all by itself. The multiple forgings under very high heat cause decarburization, particularly in 0-1. But it is very, very pretty stuff and that alone will make it "superior steel" in the eyes of many people. One cannot argue, however, that the best makers of modern damascus are doing some really gorgeous designs.

If you leave a grinding allowance, decarburization shouldn't be a problem. Tim has a very good reputation, and I'm sure he allows for it.

One of the steels that Tim uses in his Damascus is 0-1. These things hone up and shave beautifully as well as looking Mahvelous......



Lynn

Originally Posted by PapaBull

In my opinion, Forge welded steel (what we call "damascus") usually won't be as good as the lesser of the steels used all by itself. The multiple forgings under very high heat cause decarburization, particularly in 0-1. But it is very, very pretty stuff and that alone will make it "superior steel" in the eyes of many people. One cannot argue, however, that the best makers of modern damascus are doing some really gorgeous designs.

but, Tim Zowada does say that he has a homoginised 0.85% carbon in the steel so it definately will take a good edge as the carbon range in O1 is between 1.2 % and 0.8 % depending on the manufacturer.

Tim makes damascus about as good as it can be done from what I've heard and at .085, it's like 1085 steel, which is adequate. Heck, it would be better than most of the old Wade and Butchers, which usually ran about 58 HRC. Everything is a trade-off and for Damascus, you trade of some of the better properties of the steel for the artistry. I think Tim's damascus should make a good razor where a lot of Damascus steel would not. Being hard pressed to hit 57 HRC, I'm pretty sure Tim's should be able to go close to 60 and should have a reasonably fine grain. Tim's got the equipment to heat it to forging temperature quickly and minimize the decarburization that's inevitable and I'm postiive he's got an exceptional heat treat for it, so I think his razors will be pretty darned good, not because they're damascus, but in spite of it and that's a serious tribute to Tim's craft.

Originally Posted by Joe Chandler

If you leave a grinding allowance, decarburization shouldn't be a problem. Tim has a very good reputation, and I'm sure he allows for it.

Joe, that's not the problem. You can't leave "grinding allowance" for the individual plates that are being forge welded. Decarburization occurs during very high heat and the longer the steel is at a temperature higher than critical, the more decarburization you get. You are correct in alluding to the fact that decarburization occurs on the outside of the steel, but remember --- pattern welded steel has many "outside" surfaces until it's welded together and then again those surfaces are exposed as it's hammered flat, folded, reheated, etc.... O-1 is particularly susceptible to this, but is also an excellent steel and takes readily to forge welding. It's a trade-off.

Using thicker plates of steel (harder to heat to forge welding temperatures) and hitting forge welding temperatures very quickly is the key and that's a big part of how Tim can make the excllent Damascus steel he makes when a lot of Damascus makers don't.

That's just the nature of Damascus steel and that's why there are no perfect blades or knife steels. Everything is a tradeoff. I like Damascus, particularly when made as well as Tim makes it. But I realize some of the edge holding capability is given up in trade for the beauty of the pattern welded steel designs. One other nice thing about Damascus is that it's very low maintenance for a carbon steel, able to be "cleaned up" quite easily and although it will stain, the stains are not noticeable because the steel is already etched. That's a pretty nice "plus".

Here is an excellent link authored by Master Bladesmith Kevin Cashen. If nothing else, it can help provide an appreciation for the work and care that goes into producing a quality Damascus like Tim makes. It's a lot of work and a lot of effort put into the steel before even starting to fashion a blade out of it.

http://www.cashenblades.com/Info/Pattern%20welding.html

Awesome! Thanks for the link and the excellent rationale.