Thread: Dating my butcher

Originally Posted by Phrank

It' pre-1890, and it's not a near wedge, it's a hollow ground razor, the range is probably towards the later part of the 19th century. I have W&B razors with all the marks you mention above, including several of the Celebrated Hollow Ground, and depending on the style of etching on the tang, they do tend to range about 30-40 years towards the end of the 19th century. Beautiful blade.

Thanks, the seller called it near wedge, thought that didn't make sense. This is the best pic I could get, my camerawould not focus. Would you say 1/4 hollow then?

This is a pic from he seller of the tang. The "manufactured by" looks better in person.

Originally Posted by RedGladiator

Thanks, the seller called it near wedge, thought that didn't make sense. This is the best pic I could get, my camerawould not focus. Would you say 1/4 hollow then?

This is a pic from he seller of the tang. The "manufactured by" looks better in person.

I have two of the exact same blade, one more along the line's of yours, more to the 1/2-1/4 hollow and one that is quite a hollow ground, some of these razors were re-ground so it's easily possible to get the same razor with various degrees of grind. But IMO, it is definitely not a near wedge, you'll be able to tell what level of grind it is when you shave with it...the more feedback, the hollower the grind from my experience.

I'm thinking 1870-1890. Appears the marks are etched rather than stamped. Not sure when W&B started etching but it was later in their production.

Hard to tell from the pics but it looks like a rescale to me. Razor has been up and done a hone a few miles. Should still be a great shaver when honed up as those things have a lot of steel

Here's' pretty much the same razor. Pretty much a quarter hollow as I recall.

Originally Posted by Phrank

you'll be able to tell what level of grind it is when you shave with it

Not with my current level of experience

What is the term for the spine? "Smiling spine"? "hollow spine"?

Yes Wullie - here's mine - this one I'd say is more on the hollow side at 8/8, same razor, etched not stamped, which you are correct sir, dates it later in the period.



Here's a round point, 7/8 version I have of this blade, again, markings are etched, not stamped and jimps on the tang:

Originally Posted by Wullie

I'm thinking 1870-1890. Appears the marks are etched rather than stamped. Not sure when W&B started etching but it was later in their production.

Hard to tell from the pics but it looks like a rescale to me. Razor has been up and done a hone a few miles. Should still be a great shaver when honed up as those things have a lot of steel

What's the difference betweet etch and stamp?

To my eye, it look like near zero hone wear to the spine, but the bevel looks like it has uneven hone wear.

Yes rescaled with buffalo horn, using the original as a template.

Originally Posted by Wullie

I'm thinking 1870-1890. Appears the marks are etched rather than stamped. Not sure when W&B started etching but it was later in their production.

Hard to tell from the pics but it looks like a rescale to me. Razor has been up and done a hone a few miles. Should still be a great shaver when honed up as those things have a lot of steel

I'm incllned to agree with you Wullie.

An acid etched mark would expain how the circle in the mark lies on two levels on the tang - you could not do that to the degree indicated here with a stamped mark - (a) it would have to be applied with such force that it would seriously displace the metal, and (b) the undercut lower part of the tang appears to have been finished and buffed before the mark was applies. If it was stamped and the undercut then walked through its paces, the lower part of the circle would be lost altogether. The lightness of the top pat of the mark is the result of restoration.

I agree it is a rescale, but the scales are not original, in my opinion, nor are the stacked washers with a conical modern Dovo-type pin washer. Looks like the blade is somewhere between a half hollow ground and a quarter hollow ground, maybe a bit thicker, but definitely not a 'near wedge'.

Regards,
Neil

Originally Posted by RedGladiator

What's the difference betweet etch and stamp?

To my eye, it look like near zero hone wear to the spine, but the bevel looks like it has uneven hone wear.

Yes rescaled with buffalo horn, using the original as a template.

Your razor has lost some steel towards the toe, probably improper honing, and the spine has some expected hone wear, which is from being placed on the stones without tape, causing the edge of the razor to lose metal as well, it is fairly easy to see.

The above razors are acid etched rather than stamped, here is a stamped tang, notice the difference in the depth of the marks:

Originally Posted by RedGladiator

What's the difference betweet etch and stamp?

To my eye, it look like near zero hone wear to the spine, but the bevel looks like it has uneven hone wear.

Yes rescaled with buffalo horn, using the original as a template.

A "stamp" was a tool that physically impressed itself into the metal. An etch used acid to remove metal.
Here is an example of a stamp.


Compare that against the markings on your razor.

As for hone wear, yours and the one I pictured have significant hone wear. The one Phrank pictured has very little hone wear. Yours has some pretty extreme wear at the toe. Once again, see the razor Phrank posted to compare the shape of your blade vs his.

Your razor can be made to shave. It is not a razor for a neophyte to attempt honing. It took 4 layers of tape to get the old W&B I posted to shave right. The wear on mine was extreme but it was pretty even.

The "smiling" you asked about refers to the curve of the of the blade that resembles a smile when viewed with the spine up. Some guys like 'em smiling, some don't. It's a matter of personal taste. I like 'em, but have no trouble using either a straight or a smiling blade.