Thread: Frameback nomenclature

Originally Posted by appa69

Isn't a "faux frameback" razor the same as a "concave" razor?

Yes, I've heard that as well, with a slightly different shape, here is a concave ground razor(soon to be restored):

Originally Posted by Phrank

I think, not positive, the other name for one piece frame back razors, depending on the style, is the Rattler grind, like this:

You might be right, I don't know. Here is a good post by Neil Miller explaining how a rattler is ground and why it was called that http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...n-rattler.html .

Bob

Originally Posted by BobH

You might be right, I don't know. Here is a good post by Neil Miller explaining how a rattler is ground and why it was called that http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...n-rattler.html .

Bob

Great - thanks for the link!

We do have, in French, another word for the faux frameback, which is "baguette". But it's not a common word, we more usually use "faux frameback"

Originally Posted by Aggelos

We do have, in French, another word for the faux frameback, which is "baguette". But it's not a common word, we more usually use "faux frameback"

Thanks for that information, interesting. All I can say is that I would rather eat my "baguette" than shave with one. Sorry couldn't resist that.

Bob

Originally Posted by Kees

A faux frameback AFAIK is a straight made of one piece of steel, ground to look like a frameback.

I disagree. What you speak of is indeed termed a 'Rattler' .
Bob nailed it in post 2 on framebacks and faux framebacks.

Glad this came up. Even some more experienced members get it wrong at times.

@BobH had to be done, I knew it beforehand

There are indeed several sub species.
The first patent for a changeable blade razor is circa 1815 if my memory serves well, by Charles (France, high luxury brand)
Now, the UK was wayyyyyyyyyyy more advanced in cutlery at that time, I would not be surprised that we may find bold grinds before that.

Other than changeable blade razors, there are razors which are quite the same in structure, without the ability to change the blade.

The consensus where I usually roam is calling both "frameback".
Everything else looking similar would be a "faux frameback", in this same consensual context.

Yet, a concave would not be considered "faux frameback", the idea being that the "baguette" (is it the same this as "rattler" ?) can be confused with a frameback at first glance and from a meter away

@Sharptonn Tomato, tomato, if it looks like a frameback but is not, you can use the technical term, or a more casual one (like I said for example, faux frameback are seldom called "baguette" in French even if the word exists)

Originally Posted by Aggelos

Now, the UK was wayyyyyyyyyyy more advanced in cutlery at that time, I would not be surprised that we may find bold grinds before that.

Confirmed via Renzo Jardella's book & collection : circa 1800 Wade & Butcher fine indian steel, typically "baguette" grind.

Thanks to BobH's very instructive link, I think we all say the same thing and here it goes, and I try to answer BobH's question : "who was first"
- Circa 1800, the rattler, also called less technically the faux frameback, exists
- Circa 1815, there is a patent for the first frameback with a removable blade, frameback because made of two pieces of steel
- Circa 1825, we have technical testimony of the different types of grinds known at that time
* Rattler <-> Faux frameback
* Half Rattler <-> Concave
* a thin blade inserted in a support <-> frameback

The British were the first there, and clearly the frameback has been around long before someone thought of a removable blade mechanism. So, my guess would be : they were born at the same time, during the economical boom at Sheffield.

Kees has brought up a very interesting question which in turn has brought up some very interesting information, thank you to Aggelos.

My basic take away from all this is that any razor with a flat ground blade and tang that has a separate false spine attached to it or a razor with the spine integral with the tang and accepting inter changeable flat ground blades are commonly referred to as framebacks. Commonly no distinction is made between the two variants. Any razor that looks similar to the framebacks but is of one piece construction are commonly called faux framebacks with a possible sub category of the rattlers. I think my head hurts now.

Bob

Then look up, I've summed it all