Thread: Detective needed

I recently purchased a razor which was stamped with William's mark, putting it solidly in the 1830-1837 date range. This is not so unusual in itself, but it was made by one W. English of Lewes. Lewes is in east Sussex, on the southern end of England and doesnt seem to be known for being a cutlery town. As such, information is proving difficult to come by. The only information I could find on a W. English, cutler, of Lewes was showing a man by that name and in that location going bankrupt around 1815. I'm hoping one of our more scholarly members knows if this could be the same W. English, or a son, etc... anything really. The razor itself is a 5/8, definitely reground, wearing celluloid scales.

In attempting to unravel this maker's history, it soon appeared that there were quite a lot of cutlers in that part of the world, a bit like the disproportionate amount of cutlers working at Thaxted, Suffolk. Thaxtead was an established cutlery base from the 13th to 16th centuries, but why? No local materials or other inducements to establish the trade - the only thing in its favour was the rent was cheap. Maybe the same holds true for Lewes?

One of the difficulties in researching William English is that he came from a town near Lewes variously called Cliff, Cliffe, Cliffe-by-Lewes, or St. Thomas-in-the-Cliffe.

Here is a listing corroberating the parish of Cliffe dated 1755:



In the ancestry databases there are two more William English entries dated 1741 and 1752 - they might well be typos as to the dates and refer to the same man, but these are birth records. Our William English was already established as a cutler in 1755, so he may have had a son called William.

We have a later clip of an advert posted by a William English in 1763, but the location is given as Brighthelmstone. Brighthelmstone or Brighthelmston was used as a name for Brighton in the 1700s and Earlier. Brighton is only about 9 miles from Lewes, so it may refer to our William English:



In the Universal British Directory of 1791 we have a Thomas English and a Joseph English recorded - sons of William or siblings?

The following clipping covers the years 1743 - 1807, but we cannot date it precisely. It does however add a bit to William's lineage.



This clipping which covers the year 1808 mentions William English:



An 1811 trades journal mentions William English and the fact that he also had the Union Coach Company. Sometime between 1811 and 1820 (probably 1815) he was declared bankrupt.

Curiously in 1820 we have a recording of a right-of-way being bought by Joseph English, Cutler of Cliffe, for seven years.

In 1823 William was still going strong, though:



It also might provide more family members. Sarah is possibly the wife of William English or of Joseph English, but what is the relationship between William and Joseph?

A National Trust document provides another insight:



but also adds to the confusion, for if William died prior to 1784 (takes a while to gain probate) then are we talking about William senior, husband of Anne? If so, why is William junior not mentioned?

The only thing we can surmise from the above is that the company was still going in 1823 and there must have been a younger William as well as Benjamin, Thomas and Joseph English, and that the firm carried on at least up to the Coronation of King William IV (the 'Sailor King'), June 1830

Regards,
Neil

Thank you, Mr. Miller. You never cease to amaze. Well done!

Thanks - its a pleasure!

Regard,
Neil

Neil you are truly working on a different level then us mere mortals.

Originally Posted by Neil Miller

In attempting to unravel this maker's history, it soon appeared that there were quite a lot of cutlers in that part of the world, a bit like the disproportionate amount of cutlers working at Thaxted, Suffolk. Thaxtead was an established cutlery base from the 13th to 16th centuries, but why? No local materials or other inducements to establish the trade - the only thing in its favour was the rent was cheap. Maybe the same holds true for Lewes?

One of the difficulties in researching William English is that he came from a town near Lewes variously called Cliff, Cliffe, Cliffe-by-Lewes, or St. Thomas-in-the-Cliffe.

Here is a listing corroberating the parish of Cliffe dated 1755:



In the ancestry databases there are two more William English entries dated 1741 and 1752 - they might well be typos as to the dates and refer to the same man, but these are birth records. Our William English was already established as a cutler in 1755, so he may have had a son called William.

We have a later clip of an advert posted by a William English in 1763, but the location is given as Brighthelmstone. Brighthelmstone or Brighthelmston was used as a name for Brighton in the 1700s and Earlier. Brighton is only about 9 miles from Lewes, so it may refer to our William English:



In the Universal British Directory of 1791 we have a Thomas English and a Joseph English recorded - sons of William or siblings?

The following clipping covers the years 1743 - 1807, but we cannot date it precisely. It does however add a bit to William's lineage.



This clipping which covers the year 1808 mentions William English:



An 1811 trades journal mentions William English and the fact that he also had the Union Coach Company. Sometime between 1811 and 1820 (probably 1815) he was declared bankrupt.

Curiously in 1820 we have a recording of a right-of-way being bought by Joseph English, Cutler of Cliffe, for seven years.

In 1823 William was still going strong, though:



It also might provide more family members. Sarah is possibly the wife of William English or of Joseph English, but what is the relationship between William and Joseph?

A National Trust document provides another insight:



but also adds to the confusion, for if William died prior to 1784 (takes a while to gain probate) then are we talking about William senior, husband of Anne? If so, why is William junior not mentioned?

The only thing we can surmise from the above is that the company was still going in 1823 and there must have been a younger William as well as Benjamin, Thomas and Joseph English, and that the firm carried on at least up to the Coronation of King William IV (the 'Sailor King'), June 1830

Regards,
Neil

simply amazing Neil

Originally Posted by cubancigar2000

simply amazing Neil

Thank you!

Regards,
Neil