Thread: Palm honing

Originally Posted by jkatzman

The back and forth sharpening technique is used by other honemeisters like Murray Carter and Howard at the Perfect edge.

I have also seen Glen (gssixgun) use this technique first hand and if it's good enough for Glen, it's good for me.
Same with hand stropping, if it's good enough for Obie and Mastro Livi,.........

Originally Posted by jkatzman

I was told by Murray Carter you don't get a better edge with more laps. If your technique is right then fewer is better.

Mastro Livi told me this very words countless times.

Originally Posted by jkatzman

I will tell you that Mastro Livi's edge on his razors using the grit stones and strops he uses to sharpen them leave the best edge I have seen on any razor and I own or have owned 10 different manufacturers. Something to think about when you are using 40 or more laps on a strop.

I cannot agree with you more. I have shaved with hundreds of different razors, honed by different restorers or manufacturers (including the ones I personally restore or hone) and no edge was as good as the one Mastro Livi puts on a blade.

Originally Posted by jkatzman

He uses course stones and a linen and chomium oxide treated strop to finish. Note how few laps he does to achieve the amazing results.

Well, not really coarse. As far as I can tell and according to what I have personally seen, Mastro Livi uses a Kai 3K, Belgian Coticule and, rarely, Arkansas stone. He then finish every edge on his legendary loom strop by using his chromium oxide stick, strop it on leather side of his loom strop and then, of course, hand palm. Oh, by the way, he also has sixty years of daily experience on his side, something impossible to find in any hone, stone or strop.
As a matter of fact, he uses the Kai 3k for setting the bevel on his freshly made straight razors.

Originally Posted by jkatzman

When I posted it I didn't think anyone would respond. Guess we are all looking to be enlightened and learn more about the art of Straight Razor Shaving.

That's why I asked Mastro Livi to explain his art, to share his knowledge and to turn my idea into reality. Mastro Livi School is in fact supposed to give these kind of information to every straight razor enthusiast. http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...ml#post1538243

I would like to add to this that if you do hand strop, first wash your hands with a soap like Lava or similar with pumice in it which will not only clean your hands well but will remove any dead skin. You want fresh, clean skin if you are going to palm hone. If you notice in Mastro Livi's video, his hands are very clean so I believe he cleans his hands thoroughly several times a day because of his extraordinary work. I found this page in a book on the internet which I found very interesting & I will continue to study this subject more. Here's a link to the page:

https://books.google.com/books?id=aQ...rasive&f=false

This pertains to page 575 but I found page(s) 574 & 577 very interesting also.

Razorguy, I can't wait for the second part of the school. Nothing like learning from the master. I consider a 3k stone course but not as bad as using a 400 or 1k. I used them on old razors and realize how much I need to learn. I use Shapton 4k, 8k, 16k and 30 k. Prefer the stones over paste for finishing and touchups. I have yet or expect to get an edge with my stones to equal his edges but it gives me something to work toward. Your articles and videos make owning his works of art much more personal.

I use the hand stropping when honing just before I use the loupe to inspect the edge. Glad I'm not the only one.

I thought I was too lazy to go use a real strop...

Originally Posted by jkatzman

I consider a 3k stone course but not as bad as using a 400 or 1k. I used them on old razors and realize how much I need to learn. I use Shapton 4k, 8k, 16k and 30 k.

Before meeting Mastro Livi, I too believed the more and finer stones I had, the better. I therefore ended up buying many stones because I thought I could get the best edge by using them.
Then I met Mastro Livi and I was very shocked when I saw what he was using was just a 3k and a coticule, not to mention to see the excellent edges he could put on a blade with those "coarse" stones. To make the story short, I sold most of my stones and kept just few of them. I used that money for buying more razors. :-)
After all, a Belgian Coticule is not so coarse and the edge you can get from it is absolutely great. Mastro Livi taught me "less is more" and this applies to the number of stones you have, number of laps, time spent in honing a razor. You don't need tens of stones to hone a razor, indeed you need a proper and good technique.
Would you believe I could have a very comfortable shave with a razor honed with just a 3k stone? Well, I do believe and had it: when Mastro Livi was telling me about the "stone craze", he honed in front of me a freshly made razor with just a 3k and then stropped it on leather. He then wanted me to shave with it: I believed I was about to have the worst shave in my life, I had a very comfortable shave instead. Technique is everything.

Originally Posted by jkatzman

Prefer the stones over paste for finishing and touchups.

I too preferred stones over paste. Not now, tough. I happily use paste for finishing and touching up edges and I am very happy for that. After all the grit you have from a chromium oxide paste is, more or less, 30k.

Originally Posted by jkatzman

Your articles and videos make owning his works of art much more personal.

Thank you! I am very glad to read about your appreciation.

It was mentioned to use the forearm. I tried it and was amazed that my shave was actually smoother. I only lapped about 5 times. Don't worry about your wrist. If the razor is being stroked with the blade pointing to the wrist you are doing it wrong and should not be handling sharp instruments.

Something interesting happened yesterday.. kinda unfortunate, too. I am on a trip in the UK. Left a hotel in London yesterday and today I realized that I've left my strop behind. So that was kinda sad and now I'm in Brighton and I guess the leather is lost forever.

I also picked up a new coticule while in London.

So... This morning I needed a shave and I was eager to try out the stone. I took a razor that I knew was near shave ready anyway and gave it about 50 laps on the coti, on water. Lacking a strop, I first stropped on my palm a little, then stropped on my forearm, then palm stropped a bit more. I guess in relation to working on a stop, I've done about 30-40 laps equivalent, but on my own skin and went on to shave.

I was honestly very impressed. This is the first time I had to do this, obviously forced by my own stupidity in leaving the good strop behind. The shave clearly wasn't the smoothest out there (specifically the ATG pass), but the result was a very near BBS and no irritation whatsoever.

I don't mean to say this eliminated the need for a strop, on the contrary, but it does show me that palm/forearm stropping really works and when needed, could even replace a proper strop.