Thread: Help Identifying a Handmade Japanese Razor

I did a bit of searching over the weekend to find other examples of these knives to see if I could piece together a chronology of when they were made. I'll preface this by saying please don't flame me off the forum for being dumb and simplistic without reading my many caveats! Here is the hopelessly oversimplified equation I came up with to determine the age of a Iwasaki Tamahagane Western Razor:

Date of Manufacture= 1946 +(Lot# * 4.5/213)

Here is how I got there:

I learned from Takeshi's email (posted in this thread) that Iwasaki generally made the razors (not knives ww243) in batches of less than 10. This matches my own small research sample; I haven't seen any examples over 9, and the average (median) inspection number is 4 (see the table below).

Additionally, I learned from Takeshi that half of the razors that were made did not pass inspection (same email).

Additionally, I've read in many places that Iwasaki stopped making the Tamahagane Western Razors in the 1980's. The best account is from Jim Rion of Easternsmooth who went to Sanjou to interview Shigeyoshi Iwasaki 4 years ago.

Iwasaki-sensei: Lessons Learned Part 2 | Eastern Smooth: The Blog

And lastly, it's widely known that Kousuke Iwasaki founded the Sanjo Workshop in 1946 (From the preface to Jim Rion's Translation of "Honing Razors and Nihonkamisori". Thanks again to Entropy for attaching a copy of this book in an earlier post.

So to make an (admittedly terrible) estimate of when a particular Iwasaki Tamahagane Western Razor was made, I used the following assumptions below to arrive at the following.

Assumptions:

1. Average lot size for Iwasaki Tamahagane Western Razors (ITWR) is 9 razors
2. Average Yield 4.5
3. Year that Iwasaki Tamahagane Western Razors first (ITWR) made is 1946
4. Year that Iwasaki ceased producing ITWR for sale is 1985 (all I know is "mid 1980's" I assume 1985)
5. Years of Iwasaki procuction is 40
6. Oldest know razor lot # is 1901 (from observed examples in table below)
7. Total Razors produced is 17109 (from assumption 1 above * assumption 6 above)
8. Total ITWR razors produced meeting quality control standards and sold 8555 (assumption 2 * assumption 6)
9. Number of razors produced and sold per year is constant (terrible, hopelessly simplistic assumption for estimate purposes)
10. Number of razors produced per year for sale/use is 214 (assumption 8/assumption 5)
11. First razor produced was 1.1(I realized I was assuming this just before posting, didn't want to renumber 'em all)

So for a terribly rough estimate based on the assumptions above, you can estimate the age of a Iwasaki Tamahagane Razor by dividing the lot number by 47.5 and adding that result to 1946.

Date of Manufacture= 1946 +(Lot# * 4.5/213)


This is obviously a very poor way of estimating the age of a razor, but it's the first time I've ever seen anyone even attempt to do it, so it's meant to be a start, not a good solution.

The weakest assumption is of course that the number of razors produced per year is constant. For all I know, they produced 99% of them in the 1960's when Kousuke Iwasaki was wrote his lecture at the barber college. The best way to get a good estimate would of course be to get a photo-copy of the inspection log book from Sanjou Seisakushou workshop (not gonna happen).

If this looks quixotic to you, it is. I'm now really fascinated by this razor and I can't help myself. I'm guessing some of these assumptions are off or dead wrong, and I'm hoping that folks will chime in to help improve them. It's a rough start at best.

Here are the Iwasaki Tamahagane Razors I've been able to find on the internet with legible Lot and inspection numbers.

This thread has piqued my interest in these razors. I found they have a few for sale on aframes (and annoyingly a lot of "sold" ones still listed). I had a few questions for you guys, as I don't know much about buying used razors.
-There is one listed that obviously is missing a lot of metal... and the price is quite a bit lower than the others. The blade seems clean though. What are the drawbacks of having a razor that has been used or honed this much, or repaired, or whatever may have happened? I imagine it would shave the same as others, but is it possible that at some point through honing/refreshing it would run out of usable metal?? Or is the price lower just because the restoration/use has made it less collectible?
-Some of the others have more metal on the blade, but obviously noticeable marks. The comments he gives for these is pretty much the same, looks used, has rust or stain spots. What are these spots? Parts where the razor has rusted and been cleaned? Are they removable (I would imagine the seller would have removed what he could... one of the razors you can even see a dark spot that has obviously been worked on a lot... the metal around it is totally bright).

Anyway, if I were to buy one of these, it would be more for using than collecting, though of course, a nice looking razor that shaves well is better than an ugly one that shaves well. Thanks in advance for the input, and BTW OP, beautiful razor you have there.

Originally Posted by Dovo1695

I guess it's true what the say: "You can take the boy out of the country, but you can't take the country out of the boy"...

I'll do a quick "find & replace" before future posts so it's less obvious how unworthy of this thing I am.

Yo, the razor is yours, you can call it a billhook if you want. You know that.
Unworthy? the razor has both a personal and historic provenance that are fascinating and I believe you have entered the rabbit hole at full speed.
I'll keep coming back to this thread to follow the continuing tale of your knife.

Originally Posted by ffourteen

This thread has piqued my interest in these razors. I found they have a few for sale on aframes (and annoyingly a lot of "sold" ones still listed). I had a few questions for you guys, as I don't know much about buying used razors.
-There is one listed that obviously is missing a lot of metal... and the price is quite a bit lower than the others. The blade seems clean though. What are the drawbacks of having a razor that has been used or honed this much, or repaired, or whatever may have happened? I imagine it would shave the same as others, but is it possible that at some point through honing/refreshing it would run out of usable metal?? Or is the price lower just because the restoration/use has made it less collectible?
-Some of the others have more metal on the blade, but obviously noticeable marks. The comments he gives for these is pretty much the same, looks used, has rust or stain spots. What are these spots? Parts where the razor has rusted and been cleaned? Are they removable (I would imagine the seller would have removed what he could... one of the razors you can even see a dark spot that has obviously been worked on a lot... the metal around it is totally bright).

Anyway, if I were to buy one of these, it would be more for using than collecting, though of course, a nice looking razor that shaves well is better than an ugly one that shaves well. Thanks in advance for the input, and BTW OP, beautiful razor you have there.

Here is a good place to start finding answers: Straight Razor Place Library:Books/Beginners Guide - Straight Razor Place Library

Great looking Iwasaki and one I don't have anyone looking to buy a kidney I'll do a straight swap for an Iwasaki.




IWASAKI RAZOR--- Sanjo Seisakujo was established by Mr. Shigeyoshi Iwasaki and his father, Mr. Kousuke Iwasaki who is a very famous researcher as old Japanese sword revival and sword smith. His life is deeply related with Japanese sword and Tamahagane. His life had started to devote Japanese sword right before graduate college until he passed away. His son who is Mr. Shigeyoshi Iwasaki has also devoted razor and cutlery in entering his life. I visited his house in Sanjo, Niigata in May, and he should be around 80 years old, but he has still enthusiasm talking about cutlery and related things. There were Mr. Mizuochi who makes Iwasaki razor right now, and we had talked story many hours, and we talked about the letter T on the straight razor or and some other letters like 3M or 7M. They remind of some of the abbreviation of the letter means, but some of them, they are not able to remember, and we talked the subject as small talk, so I also forgot what the letters meant. What I remember is some of the letters for hardness of the razors like hard or medium hard or soft. Some of them letters are for whom selling to like barber school students or wholesaler names.

Mr. Iwasaki, Kosuke wanted revival old national treasure level of Japanese sword. He had also researched for Tamahagane which the steel is used for Japanese sword that is the purest steel in the world. He wanted to research old national treasure swords, and concealed documentations, so he went to Tokyo University which is NO.1 University in Japan, and he got bachelor degree with literature and he had learned maser course, but he changed mind to get into the major to metallography. He thought that he needed to learn metal science field to revive over 700 years old Japanese swords (national treasure class of swords). Eventually, he researched national class of treasure swords and concealed documentations in Shosoin where we are not able to see. He spent three years to study math and others, and he passed the exam, and he went to the same Tokyo University which is NO.1 school in Japan with engineering major in metallography. He got bachelor science degree and master degree with metallography too.

He graduated bachelor in history, and bachelor science and master degrees in metallography. His father was famous cutlery distributor in Sanjo, Niigata, but right before he graduated high school, It was bankrupted, so he had been part time high school teacher for so many years until finishing master degrees. He also became an apprentice for Japanese sword blacksmith and Japanese sword whet master. He had had wife and sons during college student time. It might not be rare case in United States to have job and going collage the same time with scholarship, but in that time in Japan, it was very unusual thing without the scholarship. Near the end of WWII, he had tried to make high quality Japanese swords by government support. Then WWII was finished during he struggled to set-up making Japanese sword, he does not need to make Japanese Sword for the war anymore, so he established Sanjo Seisakujo which makes world famous Iwasaki Razor right after WWII. He had kept on researching Japanese sword and steels for blade, and he has influenced a lot to Sanjo steel industry in Nigata, Japan, and he has also influenced to steel industry in Japan a lot. He also had been all over Japan to find the secret of Japanese sword making. He had found or been taught over 50 of secrets.

Iwasaki Tamahagane Western Razor had been made for overcome western razor from Solingen Germany (At the time, Western Razor from Solingen, Germany was world famous in their quality and quantity).

Actually, Sanjo Seisakujo defeated Western Razor made in Solingen, Germany by the quality and performance, however they could not produce their western Tamahagane razor as much as Solingen, Germany.

At that time, Sanjo Seisakujo had Mr. Kousuke Iwasaki, Mr. Shigeyoshi Iwasaki, two of other sons, Mr. Mizuochi (who makes Iwasaki razor right now), and Mr. Tokifusa Iizuka (who makes Shigefusa Knife), the company was like a dream team of cutlery in Japan. I have heard that Tamahagane straight razor need 6 times more amount of Tamahagane than Japanese Tamahagane razor, and it is single piece of the steel made, so it is very hard to make it. They produced 30 pieces of Tamahagane razors in a month at the time (I am not sure how many people had worked there at the time, it should be several people).

Sanjo Seisakujo will not make pure carbon steel or Tamahagane straight Razor, because the machine to make the handle was broken by flood. It is very rare vintage straight razor.

It was sold 3500yen 30 to 40 years ago. It is converted like $700 for now. Pure carbon straight razor was 1700yen. At the same time, Tamahagane Japanese razor was 600yen, so Tamahagane straight razor was almost 6 times more expensive than Tamahagane Japanese razor. The pure carbon steel straight razor was almost 3 times more expensive than Tamahagane Japanese razor. It is for professional barbers, so it was made as professional equipment. I guess it was a very expensive razor for even professional barbers tool at that time.

According to Mr. Kousuke Iwasaki record, one of barber guy had shaved 1707 people of beards without sharpen whetstone using just leather strop when it became little bit dull. Many of other experienced barbers have also shaved over 900 people without sharpening whetstones too.

He mentioned that some people say if we sell that kind of super high quality razors, we are not able to sell lots of razors, and we are not able to make money, but it is bad idea to think that way. If we are able to make the razors that are able to use from the father to the son, and from the son to the grandson, it is able to beat Germany made razors. Nobody else makes that kind of razors, so it is able to sell all over the world. That was what Mr. Kosuke Iwasaki idea.



Mr. Tanifuji, Fukutaro is the one who taught how to make straight razor to Iwasaki. The circle horizontal three lines is Iwasaki logo.

Originally Posted by WW243

Here is a good place to start finding answers: Straight Razor Place Library:Books/Beginners Guide - Straight Razor Place Library

Thanks for the link, a lot of good info there. I know (I think) in theory the types of discoloration a blade can have, but despite the examples given on the info page, I don't really feel confident IDing them, especially from a photo. Also, as far as I can tell (though, I may well have missed it, just redirect me if so), there's nothing that addresses the usability of razors that have been worn down. These two images show the discoloration and the wear/loss of metal that I'm talking about

http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL204.../409635099.jpg
http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL204.../409635127.jpg

And here is another example of... some kind of mark, I have no idea what it is. Pitting that someone tried to scrub out?

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL162.../411045596.jpg
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL162.../411045575.jpg

And this one. I can't tell if it is a stain on the edge or pitting. And I don't know what the long mark on the blade is; stain, cold-shut, pitting, or something else?

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL162.../409937478.jpg

Originally Posted by Dovo1695

I did a bit of searching over the weekend to find other examples of these knives to see if I could piece together a chronology of when they were made...

YOU my friend, have done yeoman work here. Well Done, and Thank You for your research!

I was clearing out my old voicemails shortly before Christmas, and I found that I had a voicemail from Harrelson Stanely (the man who originally sourced my razor)! Apparently he was in Japan for quite some time, returned my call in mid October, and I somehow missed the message. I've been dying to call him back but I wanted to wait until after the holidays.

I can't wait to hear more about the provenance of this razor!

I finally spoke with Harrelson Stanley yesterday evening regarding the provenance of my razor. He was incredibly gracious with his time. He told me that he purchased the knife through Masayoshi Hiraide, who operates a traditional woodworking tool store, while in Sanjo city, as it is not customary to buy Japanese tools directly from the Iwasaki Sanjo workshop; it is always done through middle-men. As such he said that he could not be certain of when the knife was made, as he did not purchase it directly from Shigeyoshi Iwasaki himself. So it is possible that the razor was produced at an earlier date, despite the fact that it took 1 year to acquire. Even so, Mr. Stanley was certain that this was among the last one's ever made, which seems likely given that the serial number is 1901.6.

He did say however that he had a lacquer knife custom made by Shigeyoshi Iwasaki in 2004 so he was confident that Shigeyoshi Iwasaki was still occasionally making commissioned pieces even at this late date when his health permitted. So it is still possible that it was made as late as 2000 when I received it.

I'm disappointed to learn that there is no way to know for certain when the knife was made, but I'm pleased to know a little more of the story of this remarkable razor.

As a side note, it turns out that Mr. Stanley has met Iwasaki at his Sanjo workshop several times. Interestingly, back in the early 2000's, Mr. Stanley was trying to arrange for Mr. Iwasaki to come to the United States to teach a 1 week workshop in blacksmithing at a school in Massachusetts. Apparently the logistics of such a course and Mr. Iwasaki's health made it impossible. What an amazing experience it would have been to spend a week with a master craftsman like Mr. Iwasaki; the school is only 2 hours from where I live!

I thought I'd update this thread in the unlikely event that anyone else is as obsessed with these marvelous razors as I am. I've found a few more Iwasaki Western Straight Razors out in the wild. This is list of the one's I have seen so far...